FIA to clamp down on exhaust blown diffusers

DRZ said:
I think you are confusing the general EBD concept (which is simply that the exhaust energy is used to make the diffuser more efficient) with the RBR-led concept of maintaining that exhaust energy even when the engine isn't being used to accelerate the car.
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I'm doing the exact opposite. Did you read my post? :confused: Everyone else seems to be the ones confusing the two, including prominent media sources.

PS: When I said "Renault only", I was referring to the engine. Which of course includes RBR. I think both of those teams have been developing this ECU feature in tandem for a long time now. To such an extent that Renault's car has the front-exit exhaust system this year. Which Newey described recently as very surprising and intuitive. There has clearly been some data and knowledge sharing between those two teams. But not too much otherwise Newey would have known all about their front-exit exhaust system.
 
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EVH said:
I complained about this last season, but I'm surprised they took so long to make a reg change about it.

I wonder how they can police it?
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Engine mappings are controlled by the ECU, which is a standard part, so I assume the FIA can just download copies of the maps and check.
 
NathanE said:
I'm doing the exact opposite. Did you read my post? :confused:
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I did, particualrly noting this bit:

EBD isn't banned. EBD is responsible for the vast majority of the awesome overrun noise you now hear on the F1 cars when braking, down shifting and slow corners.
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EBD isn't responsible for the overrun noises, the retarded ignition and corresponding automated throttle inputs are to blame for those. Technical Directive 15 would have made these noises disappear, full stop.

THAT is why I posted what I did.
 
I don't believe that is the commonly held view.

For starters, it only seems to be Renault, RBR and possibly Mercedes (judging by their qually pace in the last event) that use the special throttle mappings.

And given that ALL teams (incl. Ferrari and McLaren) running a EBD get the rather nice overrun noise. It sort of rules it out as being caused by the special throttle maps.

As soon as McLaren slapped on their EBD at Silverstone in the middle of 2010, they got the cool noise. It must be caused by acoustics i.e. the physics of outputting such loud sounds underneath the car where air pressure and flow is highly energised.
 
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NathanE said:
I don't believe that is the commonly held view.

For starters, it only seems to be Renault, RBR and possibly Mercedes (judging by their qually pace in the last event) that use the special throttle mappings.

And given that ALL teams (incl. Ferrari and McLaren) running a EBD get the rather nice overrun noise. It sort of rules it out as being caused by the special throttle maps.

As soon as McLaren slapped on their EBD at Silverstone in the middle of 2010, they got the cool noise. It must be caused by acoustics i.e. the physics of outputting such loud sounds underneath the car where air pressure and flow is highly energised.
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They ALL maintain higher-than-normal exhaust velocities, perhaps by various methods but if they didn't, the sound wouldn't change that dramatically. Throttle mapping in the manner discussed here (retaining the butterfly and running lean) is one way to do it, but so is fuelling the cylinders and missing the spark in a certain pattern to force fuel into the hot exhausts, causing it to burn there instead of the cylinder, increasing exhaust velocities. That is largely how anti-lag started to be used in rally cars to eliminate boost threshold/lag issues there...

ALL of the teams use their exhaust gasses to energise various components to generate downforce, they are designed around the concept and the balance changes if that downforce was to be lost off-throttle is quite huge.

EDIT: Just to confirm my point of view, here is Tim Goss of McLaren:

Goss, speaking during a Vodafone phone-in teleconference on Wednesday, admitted that his team would be affected by the changes.

"It's difficult to know," said Goss about how big an effect the changes would have in the performance of McLaren's car.

"All the teams are up to the same tricks with regards engine mapping. Certainly we exploit them.

"The latest set of guidelines the FIA has given us regarding engine mapping would be a performance setback for us if and when they come in. I know it would almost certainly be a performance setback to our major competitors.

"Whether it affects us more than our major competitors is something I don't know. I know what we get out of it and it's a substantial benefit. But I imagine it will be just as sizeable a setback to our competitors.
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So only the teams you listed, yeah? ;)
 
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Yeah, but you have to understand his viewpoint though. The FIA have decided these exhausts give an unfair advantage to those who run them over those who don't, but for one reason or another are not banning them.

I fully understand why Kolles is annoyed about it. I hope they do protest, along with all the other non EBD throttle mapping teams. Not to get the cars disqualified, but to get the FIAs position on it clarified. If its illegal, ban it, if not, say so. Saying their illegal yet not banning them just opens the whole thing up to ugly arguments and un-needed distraction.
 
They've said they won't confirm at which point they'll protest.

Perhaps they plan on holding up race leaders or blocking in qually? Don't think a sign or a colourful letter to the FIA will do much :p
 
I may be totally wrong but I believe that the FIA are wanting to ban the blown diffuser due to their new turbo engines I.e once turbos are used again blown diffusers could create cornering speeds that are too high (apparently unsafe like when they brought in grooved rubber)

I dont buy into the "green" arguments and some teams had blown diffusers last year.

I recon it's due to the possible use as anti-lag and the massive increase of downforce a turbo could create by blowing the gas through the diffuser.
 
MeEsH BaKkA said:
I may be totally wrong but I believe that the FIA are wanting to ban the blown diffuser due to their new turbo engines I.e once turbos are used again blown diffusers could create cornering speeds that are too high (apparently unsafe like when they brought in grooved rubber)

I dont buy into the "green" arguments and some teams had blown diffusers last year.

I recon it's due to the possible use as anti-lag and the massive increase of downforce a turbo could create by blowing the gas through the diffuser.
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Exhaust velocities are generally lower on turbo engines than their NA equivalents. The turbo gets in the way and as you want an immediate step-change in pressure either side of the turbine to be as efficient as possible, you generally find you have a wider exhaust pipe than you would want to run on an NA car (where a relatively high exhaust pressure is desireable). Wider exhaust pipe = lower pressure = lower EG velocity = less gas through the diffuser = less efficient diffuser = less downforce.
 
Its a combination of exhaust design, diffuser design, rear end design and setup, and engine mapping. Its not just about one component. I doubt many teams have got the full package. Unless you set out with it in mind, it would be difficult to add later to a car design.
 
Phreaky said:
I do find it interesting that Williams don't have it. Does this mean it isn't effective on the Cosworth engine?
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Money's on the cossie doesn't work like that yet (aka no ones pushed to make it work). I assume that's why Williams are looking to move to Renault (well apparently)

Lotus (the real one) have Renault engines now and must be using it too...
 
Phreaky said:
I do find it interesting that Williams don't have it. Does this mean it isn't effective on the Cosworth engine?
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Think during the F1 programme they said they did have it after all? They probably don't want to have to spend the money they don't have on developing it.
 
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