Finally a judge with some sense?

Dis86

Dis86

Dis86

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

Seem to be sensible words to me yet in the past when similar things have been voiced it's been declared to be victim blaming.

Surely locking your front door (so to speak) when you go out is just common sense? Bad people exist. We know they do. We cannot change it. So surely to take precautions against this bad people is ones own responsibility?
 
People seem to have trouble with being told that it's a good idea to avoid making yourself an easy victim for criminals; whether that's a rapist or a burglar.
 
Vonhelmet said:
Maybe men should drink less if it means they're likely to lose control of themselves and rape people.
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The rapey ones are probably sober.

(No sensible Predator would compromise his hunting abilities after all ;))

Drunk men are also vulnerable to assaults of various sorts too. (though this is rarely talked about)

The name of the game is to play safe when out in the jungle, especially if you are on your own...
 
Dis86 said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39233617

Seem to be sensible words to me yet in the past when similar things have been voiced it's been declared to be victim blaming.

Surely locking your front door (so to speak) when you go out is just common sense? Bad people exist. We know they do. We cannot change it. So surely to take precautions against this bad people is ones own responsibility?
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're talking about locking doors when the article hasn't mentioned burglary?

Anyway, suggesting women shouldn't get drunk because they'll probably get raped isn't just victim blaming, it's a tragic reflection of our society. The day we accept that being raped is a result of how much alcohol a woman has consumed is a sad day indeed.
 
Rape is a result of a rapist finding a vulnerable person to be their victim. Consuming large amounts of alcohol contribute towards making an individual vulnerable, whether to assault, rape or robbery. People can shout about victim blaming all they want, but fewer heavily intoxicated people would mean fewer rapes and assaults and that is inescapable. Be morally outraged all you want but it doesn't reduce the number of rape victims by burying your head in the sand. Switch the words to men and assault and the judge's point would be equally as valid yet I doubt it would raise an eyebrow.
 
Thing is, it's about taking responsibility for yourself. You wouldn't drink to the extent that you jump out into traffic, get hit by a car, and then claim it's the fault of the driver for not being able to avoid you. By getting drunk to the point where you cannot look after yourself, you will inevitably end up more prone to being targeted by predator who wants to mug you, or if you're a woman, take sexual advantage of you.

Like having the sense not to walk though a pitch black park at night by yourself so you don't get mugged, men or women (especially) should not get blind drunk, and expect everyone else to look out for them. There has to be an element of looking after yourself. Yes, rape is wrong, but it's no use standing on your principles when you've been a victim.

Take care of yourselves, because you can't rely on the goodness of strangers and it's naive to say otherwise.
 
Steampunk said:
Thing is, it's about taking responsibility for yourself. You wouldn't drink to the extent that you jump out into traffic, get hit by a car, and then claim it's the fault of the driver for not being able to avoid you.
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You might want to think that analogy through, son.
 
String said:
I'm not sure why you're talking about locking doors when the article hasn't mentioned burglary?

Anyway, suggesting women shouldn't get drunk because they'll probably get raped isn't just victim blaming, it's a tragic reflection of our society. The day we accept that being raped is a result of how much alcohol a woman has consumed is a sad day indeed.
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Are you a bit special? Have you heard the word analogy before?
 
A Judge who obviously gave a great deal of thought to her statement, you can tell that by the careful wording. I thought it was a very sensible thing to say and yet straight away we have the rape crisis centre up in arms trying to say the Judge is putting the blame on women not the rapist - I despair at times.

We seem to live in times where no one appreciates being advised about anything and in many cases as with the Judge ends up being verbally attacked for trying.
 
I think what she said was pretty simple and straightforward, it's just a shame that others have jumped on it and proclaimed victim blaming.

There are bad people out there and in the same way you mitigate the risk of being affected by them with valuables (not displaying expensive items in cars and shady places, locking doors, and not exposing credit card details to all and sundry for example) you should do the same to protect yourself from assault, whether that be physical or sexual - whether you are male or female. Being intoxicated increases your chance of falling victim to these bad people. It's not your fault it happened, but the personal factors helped you become the victim.

For some reason rape is seen as a standout of victim based crimes in this respect. Pretty much every other crime would result in "then why did walk through the park on your own/didn't you lock the door/leave your wallet on the dashboard?" Heck, IIRC if you left your car running while popping in somewhere and it got stolen, most insurance companies wouldn't pay out, same with leaving a door unlocked to your home. They aren't to blame but the insureds' actions are seen as a contributing factor to those crimes.

It's an unfortunate state of affairs but you need to reduce those factors to make sure you aren't easy "prey".

It doesn't help with rape claims that they can be very tricky, with a significant proportion coming down to a "he said/she said" argument. With nothing else to back up the claims by both sides (consensual/non consensual sex) even something like being heavily intoxicated could sway the case. It's one of the reasons that relevant past sexual history should be allowed in court - a prime example being the footballer that was released after his appeal based the matching of words and actions by the "victim", which seemed to indicate she was more likely to have consented than not.
 
Amp34 said:
I think what she said was pretty simple and straightforward, it's just a shame that others have jumped on it and proclaimed victim blaming.
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I think it's suspicious as well as a shame:

Her advice would result in fewer women being raped.

The people who are attacking her for it gain power from women being raped.

I think it's possible that there's a connection. There might also be a fixation on a simplistic ideology that causes them to genuinely believe that protecting yourself from harm is blaming the victim even though that makes no sense at all and they never apply it to anything else, but the principle of 'cui bono?' has been around a long time because it's true.
 
No time like when you're retiring from your job to say **** you all, this is what I really think.

Whatever other opinions there are she's been a judge for a while, seen more cases than most and definitely got to hear multiple sides of the stories.
 
Dis86 said:
Are you a bit special? Have you heard the word analogy before?
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If you think that's a relevant or accurate analogy then I suggest you may be a little hard of thinking.

Women should be free to dress how they like and socialise without being accused of encouraging men to rape them. What next? Should we ban Wonder Bras and insist on skirts that extend to between the knee and ankle? Should we create a drink-drive alcohol style limit to women who are considering a night out?

Rather than advise women to drink less, maybe we should consider discouraging men from raping them in the first place?
 
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How exactly would you go about discouraging men to rape less? They know if caught they'll get a long sentence and likely be smashed to pieces inside prison so I'm not sure how much more you can deter them.

No one is saying they can't dress how they like, but if you drink to the point you don't know what you're doing then 1. It obviously makes you very vulnerable to any kind of attack and 2. It makes consent and your understanding of what actually happened very limited which could affect your evidence in court, as shown in that footballers case.
 
Ayahuasca said:
How exactly would you go about discouraging men to rape less? They know if caught they'll get a long sentence and likely be smashed to pieces inside prison so I'm not sure how much more you can deter them.

No one is saying they can't dress how they like, but if you drink to the point you don't know what you're doing then 1. It obviously makes you very vulnerable to any kind of attack and 2. It makes consent and your understanding of what actually happened very limited which could affect your evidence in court, as shown in that footballers case.
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Drinking to the point where you don't know what you are doing can lead to a myriad of issues, so I'm not sure why we're focused on one particular issue when women are drinking to excess.

Rape is not the product of a woman's inability to control her alcohol intake, it's the product of a man's inability to control his penis... and I'd wager that in a very high percentage of incidents, it's the man's alcohol intake that's been a contributory factor.
 
We're focusing on it as that's the main point raised in the article.

I don't think anyone is saying rape is due to women being too intoxicated, we're saying it only encourages men to commit it and could affect a woman's chances in court of giving substantiated evidence.

What the judge has said is just common sense really, it's nothing new or groundbreaking. As usual though the triggered brigade think she's victim blaming as their social media degree didn't enhance their reading comprehension.
 
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