Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE)

throwaway4372

throwaway4372

throwaway4372

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For anyone arriving via a search engine: this thread is specific to the UK

What is FIRE?
Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) is a movement of people devoted to a program of extreme savings and investment with the goal of retiring far earlier than traditional budgets and retirement plans would permit. Those seeking to attain FIRE intentionally maximize their savings rate by growing the gap between their living expenses and their income, and investing the difference.

Why a dedicated FIRE thread?
I've been dipping into related threads for a while Trading the stockmarket and Pension fund performance but my interest is in early retirement. FIRE talk doesn't belong in trading because we invest rather than trade (and don't want to get tempted into trading) and it feels a bit mean to talk about early retirement in pensions because most people are trying to get the basics right and we don't want to distract them with this.

FIRE learning resources
Good introductory book: Save Half, Retire Fast by Frankie Calkins (minor US to UK translation required)
This subreddit is pretty good also /r/FIREUK and has some handy links in the sidebar.
Help choosing an investment platform: S&S ISA and SIPP
 
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My current situation
Trying to find a new job (don't get me started, hopefully I find one soon).
Keeping an eye out for ISA+SIPP transfer cashback deals in the new year (I want to move to ii for the flat monthly fee structure so I can choose investments without platform fee constraints).
I have used VHVG so far, and was considering VUAG or VWRP. I decided the US is overweight, so going all-world is best ("vt and chill"), but VAFTA and VWRP have ripoff fees (as does vanguard the platform), so once on ii I'll have HSBC FTSE All-World Index instead.
 
The gap between leaving full time education and leaving full time work is dramatically reduced. Leaving little enough time to contribute anything to society or even raise a family in case they impinge on a long retirement plan. Best hope that close relatives and parents fade into the background as well, not getting any long term infirmity requiring care.

It is a very good job that previous generations had application and some idea of a neighbourly responsibility to other people.
 
I guess I'm 2 and a half years into a 10 year plan of achieving this, although currently tracking at 23% of contributions required/19% of target values (over in LISA/SIPP and under in S&S ISA/Premium Bonds). Starting a new job in Jan that came with a fair bump in salary which should speed this up slightly.

Although it's the more frugal version of FIRE that's for sure.

In terms of my investment choices, I've just replicated the entire world as cheaply as I can in all my pots. So I have MDAABG and VIGSCA in my S&S ISA, MDAABG in my Dodl LISA, etc for Vanguard SIPP and my workplace pension (although will be moving that into Vanguard in 2025). Total ongoing charges, including the platform costs, are around 0.12% which I think is as best I can get it currently.
 
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^Good overview video.

Key points I'd expand on - the 3-4% rule is less important if you're on the more frugal side of approaches. If you're not having kids etc you're less bothered about using up your capital. As you use up your pots, you won't mind exhausting the capital as you won't need it once you can access the next pot (think S&S ISA to LISA to SIPP). Dying with nothing (or very little) is more commonly the target.

A lot of that planning also assumes fixed withdrawal amounts... which is nonsense. More likely to have variable withdrawals that take into account market conditions etc.

I'd definitely agree about the RE not actually meaning full retirement also. I'll probably just reduce my hours or do something more enjoyable once I've hit FI.

Overall it's far more about flexibility than the commentary around it suggests.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
i wish someone told me about FIRE or even Vanguard platform/Index Funds when I was in school.
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The amount of gains I have missed out on being in safe pension funds and the like is frustrating

Fire isn't for me though. I'm more into spending throughout life as I'm far too late to retire materially earlier
 
413x said:
The amount of gains I have missed out on being in safe pension funds and the like is frustrating

Fire isn't for me though. I'm more into spending throughout life as I'm far too late to retire materially earlier
Click to expand...

I only really found out about Vanguard about 5 years ago, granted, Vanguard is still only online through a website rather through an App (which is to check balance only), overall it is still easy to get into. I wish this was available back when I was in university. I remember when I was at uni I bought some DVDs from Amazon and thought "I should buy their stock", even £100. Amazon didn't make a penny in profit at this point in time and their stock was obviously very cheap compared to now. I didn't know who to call, now anyone can do that now on an App and there is so much information now on YouTube.

Back then these things almost felt like it was all behind a course at university or your parents were financially savvy and had known about where and how to do these things.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I only really found out about Vanguard about 5 years ago, granted, Vanguard is still only online through a website rather through an App (which is to check balance only), overall it is still easy to get into. I wish this was available back when I was in university. I remember when I was at uni I bought some DVDs from Amazon and thought "I should buy their stock", even £100. I didn't know who to call, now anyone can do that now on an App and there is so much information now on YouTube.

Back then these things almost felt like it was all behind a course at university or your parents were financially savvy and had known about where and how to do these things.
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The stock market used to be niche. You had to be really interested in that stuff to get access to it.

Now with apps like t212 any old pleb can have a play.

I'm convinced my quantum stocks are I an epic bubble supported by this average Joe access + Fomo + hype etc.

The discussion boards are riddled with nosense. It's a bit concerning.
 
I've looked at this movement a bit over the years, and while I completely dig FI, the extreme nature of some of the movement is concerning, and I agree with the comments ref: RE. Although it as a movement can be positive, and obviously education and empowerment is good, I think you need to be quite careful when dealing with what can at times be an extreme movement. It feels easy to become obsessed and get in to a "toxic" financial mindset, something that can have quite the negative impact. I don't really view it any differently to something like fitness/fashion industry induced body dysmorphia. This is not to say some people do not have great success, just, try to be self aware, and if you can get obsessive like me then try to keep your wits about you.
 
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Zefan said:
I've looked at this movement a bit over the years, and while I completely dig FI, the extreme nature of some of the movement is concerning, and I agree with the comments ref: RE. Although it as a movement can be positive, and obviously education and empowerment is good, I think you need to be quite careful when dealing with what can at times be an extreme movement. It feels easy to become obsessed and get in to a "toxic" financial mindset, something that can have quite the negative impact. I don't really view it any differently to something like fitness/fashion industry induced body dysmorphia. This is not to say some people do not have great success, just, try to be self aware, and if you can get obsessive like me then try to be keep your wits about you.
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I would agree. Something I've found over the years is that when I had to make a purchase decision, I used to suck the life out of any enjoyment of buying even nice things, because I would hyper analyse the best bang per buck. This was mainly because I've had to, rather than wanted to.
As I've got older and our disposable income has become a little more comfortable, I try to make quicker decisions and care less about whether it was the best possible deal because time is money and I want to live life. I used to turn my nose up at spending any amount of money where I knew I could go online and get it cheaper, even when I needed something quickly and it was there in a shop. These days it's about life balance more to me and I tend to make the best decision I realistically can in a reasonable amount of time, then move on. I think when you think about money too much it can mentally drain you.
 
You’d could arguably say that the other extreme is just as bad, if not worse though, people who waste every penny they earn on things they don’t really need - but hey that’s what our entire economic system depends on so it’s all gravy right?
 
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