Financial Independence Retire Early (FIRE)

[Zefan]

I would agree. Something I've found over the years is that when I had to make a purchase decision, I used to suck the life out of any enjoyment of buying even nice things, because I would hyper analyse the best bang per buck. This was mainly because I've had to, rather than wanted to.
As I've got older and our disposable income has become a little more comfortable, I try to make quicker decisions and care less about whether it was the best possible deal because time is money and I want to live life. I used to turn my nose up at spending any amount of money where I knew I could go online and get it cheaper, even when I needed something quickly and it was there in a shop. These days it's about life balance more to me and I tend to make the best decision I realistically can in a reasonable amount of time, then move on. I think when you think about money too much it can mentally drain you.

Totally with you. I'm sure it's more of a "skill issue" realistically, I just want to make sure people who see this understand that there exists a vulnerability in humans that this can negatively exploit.

You’d could arguably say that the other extreme is just as bad though, people who waste every penny they earn on things they don’t really need - but hey that’s what our entire economic system depends on so it’s all gravy right?

Yeah because someone posts balanced viewpoint on A, including some criticism that relates to their personal experience, they must be in complete and unimaginably braindead support for B. Come on dude

For the record, while I think the extremes on both ends are not great, by faaaaar the larger problem is frivolous spending/lifestyle expansion and debt, and the unhealthy relationship/dependence our culture has with/on it.

 

[Pawnless Endgame]

Shouldn't we be getting more working-age people back into work? There is an issue in the UK called economic inactivity where working-age people are not in work and not even looking for work. One of the causes is mental health which is fair enough but another cause is as per this thread - early retirement. It didn't work out for the 2 people who I know that tried it at 55. Both of them ended up back in work, one at 59, the other at 63 because they couldn't make ends meet.

classic... depositing into t212 is instant but withdrawing takes 3 business days.

That's the same as any gambling site. Deposit is instant but withdrawals take 2-3 days.

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Yeah because someone posts balanced viewpoint on A, including some criticism that relates to their personal experience, they must be in complete and unimaginably braindead support for B. Come on dude

That’s not what I said though. Part of the reason why the FIRE movement exists in the first place is because people want to escape the dead end consume until you die system that we live in. To paint it as a path to extremist behaviours when objectively a lot of people already live in those under our economic system, just to the other end, isn’t balanced at all.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I would agree. Something I've found over the years is that when I had to make a purchase decision, I used to suck the life out of any enjoyment of buying even nice things, because I would hyper analyse the best bang per buck. This was mainly because I've had to, rather than wanted to.
As I've got older and our disposable income has become a little more comfortable, I try to make quicker decisions and care less about whether it was the best possible deal because time is money and I want to live life. I used to turn my nose up at spending any amount of money where I knew I could go online and get it cheaper, even when I needed something quickly and it was there in a shop. These days it's about life balance more to me and I tend to make the best decision I realistically can in a reasonable amount of time, then move on. I think when you think about money too much it can mentally drain you.

I still do that!

I need some cable sleeve that I plan to tidy up behind my desk when my Mac Mini arrives next week. £7.99 to buy 10ft in the UK (not sure if OCUK sell it, so I won't mention it).

But I don't really need 10ft, at most I need 1 meter (3ft), so I got it from the far east, for £1.50. I also got some velcro strip/cable tie things should I need to tidy other cables up. plus 2 x USB-A to USB-C adaptors and 2 USB-C to USB-A Adaptors (USB 3.2). All for the same price as the Cable sleeve that would cost in the UK.

That feels good to me knowing I've maximised my value.

A month ago I could have ordered the Mac Mini for about £525 I think online, but I waited until this weekend just gone because I got to see my sister/RIL over Christmas and got to use Educational discount through them and save £25 as its £499 on the Edu store.

But then I would go spend £200 on a pair of new Sony XM4 because I want all my devices to have USB-C and the XM1 is Micro USB!

 

[MichaelAwkward]

Shouldn't we be getting more working-age people back into work? There is an issue in the UK called economic inactivity where working-age people are not in work and not even looking for work. One of the causes is mental health which is fair enough but another cause is as per this thread - early retirement. It didn't work out for the 2 people who I know that tried it at 55. Both of them ended up back in work, one at 59, the other at 63 because they couldn't make ends meet.

Personally I wouldn’t really class retiring at 55 as FIRE, that’s been a common retirement age for decades now due to private pension rules (ten years earlier than pension age). If they had to go back to work, they weren’t ready to retire.

One thing FIRE promotes is planning, lots and lots of planning. It doesn’t sound like they did that.

To your wider point, yes it is a problem but nobody seems interested in improving the world of work. Young-er people have been treated like fools and given a crap future to inherit so is it any wonder they want to escape it as quickly as possible? Either through exploiting it as much as they can to build their pot or by living on beans and living a more frugal minimalist life style. Personally I’m somewhere between them I’d say.

 

[Zefan]

That’s not what I said though. Part of the reason why the FIRE movement exists in the first place is because people want to escape the dead end consume until you die system that we live in. To paint it as a path to extremist behaviours when objectively a lot of people already live in those under our economic system, just to the other end, isn’t balanced at all.

You did though... you made a silly remark about how because I highlighted FIRE could have some negative aspects for some individuals then I must support complete submission to the consumerist dystopia. What is your actual issue? I posted a very quick overview of my assessment of FIRE - as no one had mentioned anything similar yet - saying I've looked at it a lot, and some aspects are great, but you need to be careful if you're like me and can become obsessive as it can lead to some negative behaviour. Can you tell me which parts of the post you would have left out? Are you just being a bit sensitive because I didn't just come in waving a FIRE flag singing?

 

[MichaelAwkward]

You did though... you made a silly remark about how because I highlighted FIRE could have some negative aspects then we must support complete submission to the consumerist dystopia. What is your actual issue? I posted an assessment of it, saying I've looked at it a lot, and some aspects are great, but you need to be careful if you're like me and can become obsessive as it can lead to some negative behaviour. Can you tell me which parts of the post you would have left out? Are you just being a bit sensitive because I didn't just come in waving a FIRE flag singing?

What are you on about? I didn’t even reply to your post, I was replying generally/in response to jaybee.

If you’re gonna come into a thread about FIRE and make it about yourself and how you couldn’t do it without it becoming obsessive and negative, then obviously someone will respond to point out all the obsessive and negative behaviours that go on for people who aren’t trying FIRE. That’s balance.

I haven’t even been particularly pro-FIRE in my posts in this thread besides commenting that I’m kinda doing it. I’m well aware that some people aren’t built in a way that lends itself to discipline and can’t see the wood for the trees, but that applies across all of society in many aspects, not just money.

Did I hit a nerve with the gravy? Do you not like gravy or something? You’ve taken my posts very personally considering nowhere did I say this:

I must support complete submission to the consumerist dystopia.

I in fact simply said that the extremes at the opposite end were equally bad, if not worse, for individuals.

 

[413x]

I would agree. Something I've found over the years is that when I had to make a purchase decision, I used to suck the life out of any enjoyment of buying even nice things, because I would hyper analyse the best bang per buck. This was mainly because I've had to, rather than wanted to.
As I've got older and our disposable income has become a little more comfortable, I try to make quicker decisions and care less about whether it was the best possible deal because time is money and I want to live life. I used to turn my nose up at spending any amount of money where I knew I could go online and get it cheaper, even when I needed something quickly and it was there in a shop. These days it's about life balance more to me and I tend to make the best decision I realistically can in a reasonable amount of time, then move on. I think when you think about money too much it can mentally drain you.

For sure.
I still naturally save.
Now not so much. It's easy to just endlessly save for a future that never comes. And equally spend like there's no tomorrow.. And suffer later.

Everything is a balance as they say.

 

[Zefan]

Snip

I think we're just posting past each other but essentially agree. Love ya x

:edit: I enjoyed the gravy dig, for the record no I haven't always liked it until the last few years, the wife on the other hand literally drinks it thankfully she is quite the frugal one so we have good alignment when it comes our finances and potential for FIRE (not really FIRE tho)

 

[CaptainRAVE]

I get loads of time off from work, but for the most part I get pretty bored. I’d like to trial part time though, likely when my current contract is up.

It’s a tricky balance with savings. My dad saved all his life, retired early then had a heart attack, stroke and brain tumour meaning he couldn’t enjoy his money to the fullest.

 

[413x]

Shouldn't we be getting more working-age people back into work? There is an issue in the UK called economic inactivity where working-age people are not in work and not even looking for work. One of the causes is mental health which is fair enough but another cause is as per this thread - early retirement. It didn't work out for the 2 people who I know that tried it at 55. Both of them ended up back in work, one at 59, the other at 63 because they couldn't make ends meet.



That's the same as any gambling site. Deposit is instant but withdrawals take 2-3 days.

You've got to save so so much to retire early. And to retire with a life you have to save a lot more than that.
Its just not possible to shave more than a few (under 5) years off unless you earn a lot or plan to live with the minimum.

I hope more work places support working less days in future. It's still not easy to get a non 5 days a week job in many sectors.

I'd love to work 4 days for more years vs 5 days for less years.

 

[dowie]

I know the thread is about the UK but really it seems like BS for most people as far as the UK is concerned - being able to retire at say 67 with a nice detached family home + the equivalent of a boomer's gold-plated final salary pension would be an achievement in itself.

To get that sort of regular middle-class boomer, living in a nice area with a reasonable retirement income plus some savings for emergencies or big purchases could require something like:

Paying off a home worth £800k+ and a pension worth over a million + say a good six-figure amount across your ISA, savings and regular stock portfolio. (edit - and that's at today's prices! Will need more with inflation.)

I think that in itself is a decent enough goal to try and attempt and something most GenZ or millennials will probably miss let alone even thinking about trying to restire in your 30s or 40s.

"Early Retirement" in your 50s or early 60s - maybe but again is it going to be with the above regular middle-class lifestyle in mind? You'd need an even bigger pension pot, maybe getting closer to 2 million. Again we're not talking rich but just ordinary 4-5 bedroom middle-class family home in a nice area outside of London, or a small terraced house in say zone 3 or 4 in London (don't even think about nice parts of zone 1 with only 800k for the property).

Early retirement in your 30s or 40s - unless you're scrimping like the couple in the Good Life TV series (that house would still cost a million+) or you're being economical with the truth re: "retirement" and in reality have some sort of business, BTL properties etc.. (or the poster with a caravan park) then it's going to be very hard to achieve with UK salaries. You'd need a few million saved and realistically most careers won't result in that - some successful self-employed people sure, but realistically they're maybe going to take a step back from the business but not actually be fully retired. Some barristers or bankers/finance types too - realistically they won't necessarily quit and are quite keen to keep on doing their jobs, some of the finance types end up with early retirement by default as a result of being laid off and not being able to return to the same sort of high six-figure or low even figure roles.

The US, on the other hand, has that sort of barrister & banker level pay for tech employees, that's where some Redditors double up their jobs, where it's easier to land a role paying 400k or even 800k etc.. and have less tax to pay on those high earnings too + can get way more home & land for less money - that's where it works, they'll save a few million and can legitimately "retire" in their 40s, there are far fewer opportunities to just go out in the UK and decide you're going to accumulate a few million in the next decade.

If OP or others are going to get a few million in say the next 10 years then good luck to them, it's not an easy thing to achieve and most people I know who have done that already have no plans to stop working any time soon.

 

[413x]

I get loads of time off from work, but for the most part I get pretty bored. I’d like to trial part time though, likely when my current contract is up.

It’s a tricky balance with savings. My dad saved all his life, retired early then had a heart attack, stroke and brain tumour meaning he couldn’t enjoy his money to the fullest.

Desperate for it.
Considering going contract or finding a perm job with more holiday.
25 days is just not enough.

Happy to take a pay cut for it too.
Don't care what method it comes by. I just yearn for more than 25 days.

 

[jaybee]

I'd personally hate to get to 55 and have a great financial outlook and be able to retire, but not have done as much in life between 40-55. It would be sods law as well. You're just inviting cancer to knock on the door the day you retire. I think a balanced approached is required, but for me I'm more about living life. All the things I'm enthused about and want to do now, I might not want or be able to do at 55. You can't take it to the grave as they say.

 

[CaptainRAVE]

Desperate for it.
Considering going contract or finding a perm job with more holiday.
25 days is just not enough.

Happy to take a pay cut for it too.
Don't care what method it comes by. I just yearn for more than 25 days.

I’d struggle with 25 days. I think I get about 16ish weeks off, so can’t really complain!

 

[danlightbulb]

Even if I'd found out about FIRE early in life, it's not for me.

I want to enjoy life and enjoying life means spending money on nice things. Whether it's holidays, a mountain bike, new TV, pc parts, new sim racing equipment. There is always something that comes next no matter how much stuff you already have.

I also like working, it keeps me busy and active. If I gave up work early I'd be bored, not see people, probably not eat properly and I think Id die sooner than if I carry on working and have a purpose.

Best solution is having loads of money AND spending it.

 

[413x]

I know the thread is about the UK but really it seems like BS for most people as far as the UK is concerned - being able to retire at say 67 with a nice detached family home + the equivalent of a boomer's gold-plated final salary pension would be an achievement in itself.

To get that sort of regular middle-class boomer, living in a nice area with a reasonable retirement income plus some savings for emergencies or big purchases could require something like:

Paying off a home worth £800k+ and a pension worth over a million + say a good six-figure amount across your ISA, savings and regular stock portfolio.

I think that in itself is a decent enough goal to try and attempt and something most GenZ or millennials will probably miss let alone even thinking about trying to restire in your 30s or 40s.

"Early Retirement" in your 50s or early 60s - maybe but again is it going to be with the above regular middle-class lifestyle in mind? You'd need an even bigger pension pot, maybe getting closer to 2 million. Again we're not talking rich but just ordinary 4-5 bedroom middle-class family home in a nice area outside of London, or a small terraced house in say zone 3 or 4 in London (don't even think about nice parts of zone 1 with only 800k for the property).

Early retirement in your 30s or 40s - unless you're scrimping like the couple in the Good Life TV series (that house would still cost a million+) or you're being economical with the truth re: "retirement" and in reality have some sort of business, BTL properties etc.. (or the poster with a caravan park) then it's going to be very hard to achieve with UK salaries. You'd need a few million saved and realistically most careers won't result in that - some successful self-employed people sure, but realistically they're maybe going to take a step back from the business but not actually be fully retired. Some barristers or bankers/finance types too - realistically they won't necessarily quit and are quite keen to keep on doing their jobs, some of the finance types end up with early retirement by default as a result of being laid off and not being able to return to the same sort of high six-figure or low even figure roles.

The US, on the other hand, has that sort of barrister & banker level pay for tech employees, that's where some Redditors double up their jobs, where it's easier to land a role paying 400k or even 800k etc.. and have less tax to pay on those high earnings too + can get way more home & land for less money - that's where it works, they'll save a few million and can legitimately "retire" in their 40s, there are far fewer opportunities to just go out in the UK and decide you're going to accumulate a few million in the next decade.

If OP or others are going to get a few million in say the next 10 years then good luck to them, it's not an easy thing to achieve and most people I know who have done that already have no plans to stop working any time soon.

My personal target is 500k.
Anything materially more (ie 1mln) would require a substantial change in contributions where by I'd feel the effect.

I've chosen to aim for 500k but work longer and taper down.

I've also seen too many people go from 9-5 5 days a week to nothing and then just waste away time.
When you work you value time off. Too often people retire and seem. Basically miserable.
Or have bad health.

My parents, my partners parent are examples of this. All the money, 50k per year pensions.. But they do basically nothing on thier huge houses.

 

[413x]

I’d struggle with 25 days. I think I get about 16ish weeks off, so can’t really complain!

Yeah I can spend a lot on those days and use every single one for holidays. I look back in last year and it's depressing how much "great time" there was in 365 days. It has to change!

 

[Trifid]

I would agree. Something I've found over the years is that when I had to make a purchase decision, I used to suck the life out of any enjoyment of buying even nice things, because I would hyper analyse the best bang per buck. This was mainly because I've had to, rather than wanted to.
As I've got older and our disposable income has become a little more comfortable, I try to make quicker decisions and care less about whether it was the best possible deal because time is money and I want to live life. I used to turn my nose up at spending any amount of money where I knew I could go online and get it cheaper, even when I needed something quickly and it was there in a shop. These days it's about life balance more to me and I tend to make the best decision I realistically can in a reasonable amount of time, then move on. I think when you think about money too much it can mentally drain you.

Interestingly, I found the complete opposite was true for me. When I first started earning a wage, I was frivolous with spending and I realised I didn't enjoy the purchases as much. I put big purchases on the back burner like I had to save for them and I started to value them again.



For me, FIRE is earning an above average wage but living an average life. The idea that someone on a average wage sacrificing all life's enjoyment to retire early is misplaced but seems to be the picture the media paints. I started out when the retirement age got increased to 68 and just wanted to buy the 3 years back. As my income has increased further, I have now set an age range that means I can have a comfortable life and a bit of time to deliberate actually quitting. I neither want to be counting the pennies in early retirement nor do I want to finally retire and not have the health like my Dad who had a stage 4 cancer diagnosis a few months into retirement.

 

[Zefan]

Interestingly, I found the complete opposite was true for me. When I first started earning a wage, I was frivolous with spending and I realised I didn't enjoy the purchases as much. I put big purchases on the back burner like I had to save for them and I started to value them again.



For me, FIRE is earning an above average wage but living an average life. The idea that someone on a average wage sacrificing all life's enjoyment to retire early is misplaced but seems to be the picture the media paints. I started out when the retirement age got increased to 68 and just wanted to buy the 3 years back. As my income has increased further, I have now set an age range that means I can have a comfortable life and a bit of time to deliberate actually quitting. I neither want to be counting the pennies in early retirement nor do I want to finally retire and not have the health like my Dad who had a stage 4 cancer diagnosis a few months into retirement.

This is amazing IMO - it's all about giving yourself flexibility - but is not really FIRE as Diddums so perfectly summarises above IMO. FIRE - as a movement - seems more about rejection of typical timescales (sometimes to a fault) and a sort of ASAP FOMO, which is what I referred to in my first response to the thread.