Finland considering giving every citizen €800 a month

Its an interesting thought.

I wonder if the cumulative effect of removing disability benefits, shuttting down the job center and other things that would be made redundant by this would make up for the required spend?
 
Boycey0211 said:
Its an interesting thought.

I wonder if the cumulative effect of removing disability benefits, shuttting down the job center and other things that would be made redundant by this would make up for the required spend?
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Thats the idea. Plus the massive economic output of having so many more consumers, and placing more power back to the working man by giving them an option not to work in a soul destroying job, forcing wages for rubbish jobs to go up. Universal basic income is a fantastic idea and the future, i'm just sad I wont live to see it.

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Mynight said:
£36,921,600,000 (per month)

That's an awful lot of money if the uk did the same. We couldn't afford that.
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It is happening here with the changes to tax free allowance over the last few years. Although clearly that benefits only those working.
 
Universal Basic Income is a brilliant idea, but one I don't think everywhere is quite ready for yet. It will have to happen at some point though, unemployment is only going to go up, and there'll reach a point where this is simpler, possible, and logical. In an ideal world, machines produce almost everything we need for a low cost, and we heavily tax the super rich (i.e. the machine owners) to redistribute the wealth, and the cycle of money continues, just in a fairer fashion than before.

Of course it's gonna need a pretty heavy change in society, but I think we're going to see more and more of this over the coming years. Maybe 10, 20, 50, but it'll happen.
 
D D Danneh said:
Universal Basic Income is a brilliant idea, but one I don't think everywhere is quite ready for yet. It will have to happen at some point though, unemployment is only going to go up, and there'll reach a point where this is simpler, possible, and logical. In an ideal world, machines produce almost everything we need for a low cost, and we heavily tax the super rich (i.e. the machine owners) to redistribute the wealth, and the cycle of money continues, just in a fairer fashion than before.

Of course it's gonna need a pretty heavy change in society, but I think we're going to see more and more of this over the coming years. Maybe 10, 20, 50, but it'll happen.
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It wont be 10 or 50, we need generations to die out to change ways of thinking.

If after 60 years there are still Germans who grew up under the repression of Nazi ideology that, despite all the education and forgiveness post WW2, still believe in the nonsense Nazi's taught ( http://gawker.com/germany-still-probably-full-of-nazis-study-1711494462 ) then our generation and probably the one after it will need to die before the idea of lifes necesities being a privlidge not a right to die out, or that the idea that mind numbing work that robots can now do is some how beneficial.

buckminster-fuller-we-must-do-away-with-the-absolutely-specious-notion-that-everybody-has-to-earn-a-living.jpg
 
To quote someone I was having a discussion with that has never worked in her life and doesn't need to for the remainder of her life.. "no. I won't pay for someone else.". Basically she sees the heavy tax and the little she gets in return (other than security and basic services), whereas the majority of it gets "given" to the underperforming.

Over tax the super rich and they'll just go elsewhere.

Over tax corporations and they'll just go elsewhere.

The concept of taxation is a simple "get out of jail" for the politicians. In reality they fail to bring everyone up to the same level.. so instead they'll drain those that excel and underpin those that slack.

The issue is simply one of motivation not to sit on their butts and watch Jeremy Kyle/soaps all day.
 
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NickK said:
To quote someone I was having a discussion with that has never worked in her life and doesn't need to for the remainder of her life.. "no. I won't pay for someone else.". Basically she sees the heavy tax and the little she gets in return (other than security and basic services), whereas the majority of it gets "given" to the underperforming.
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It will get worse before it gets better. At the moment society protects her because not enough people are angry enough to do anything about the capitalist system, but as jobs go and poor people get poorer, whilst rich people get richer (the natural end result of capitalism) she will begin to see value in being protected from the public.
 
NickK said:
Over tax the super rich and they'll just go elsewhere.

Over tax corporations and they'll just go elsewhere.

The concept of taxation is a simple "get out of jail" for the politicians. In reality they fail to bring everyone up to the same level.. so instead they'll drain those that excel and underpin those that slack.

The issue is simply one of motivation not to sit on their butts and watch Jeremy Kyle/soaps all day.
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The world is getting smaller, are the wealth hoarders with the capital (much of it undeserved and inherited rather than gained through hard work) eventually going to go off planet?
 
Finland are doing it right. I've long said that a system like this is what we need here. We would do away with benefit cheats, and all the administration required because EVERYONE would get it. Yes, the capital cost per month would be high initially but the savings from all of the admin departments no longer being required would surely be huge.
 
hurfdurf said:
http://collectivelyconscious.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/buckminster-fuller-we-must-do-away-with-the-absolutely-specious-notion-that-everybody-has-to-earn-a-living.jpg[/IMG[/QUOTE]

That's an excellent quote from Bucky, I've just been reading up more on him, he seems to have said so many insightful things

This just made me chuckle

[QUOTE]If you take all the machinery in the world and dump it in the ocean, within months more than half of all humanity will die and within another six months they’d almost all be gone; if you took all the politicians in the world, put them in a rocket, and sent them to the moon, everyone would get along fine.[/QUOTE]

:D
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One day there will be a monthly credit allowance except for the super rich. It will always be a type of feudal society and its been hidden away ala the hidden aristocracy of the UK. Special bloodlines attract special privilege.

Hurfdurfs second picture is the truest thing, it reminds me of money being the ultimate illusion and a tool of enslavement, we are the 99%+ at least nothing more than debt slaves.

If you were to take 1% wealth of the 1% virtually all problems related to money would be gone. I don't think a lot of people out there realize just how wealthy this "elite" is.
 
UK equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Age_structure

15–64 - 41.704
65+ - 10.378

52.082 * 576 = 29,999,232,000

= 359,990,784,000 per annum

Do total UK benefits even come to this figure? I doubt it. I guess that many services that are provided by the govt free at the point of use would have to become payable.

That in turn opens up services to the private sector.

I'm surprised left-wingers are supportive of this idea! It's a capitalists dream.
 
EdwardTeach said:
It would just cause inflation in things like rent.

In any case welfare is wrong and encourages careless breeding.
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Wealth and capitalism is wrong and encourages inequality. I would rather people breed than have people starve.

Not only that, but your statement is demonstrably false. Careless breeding was a symptom for the deaths of infants from poverty. We have seen time and time again where increases in living standards reduces birth rates globally and locally. Shame on you for espousing such wrong views.
 
Rosbif said:
UK equivalent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_Kingdom#Age_structure

15–64 - 41.704
65+ - 10.378

52.082 * 576 = 29,999,232,000

= 359,990,784,000 per annum

Do total UK benefits even come to this figure? I doubt it. I guess that many services that are provided by the govt free at the point of use would have to become payable.

That in turn opens up services to the private sector.

I'm surprised left-wingers are supportive of this idea! It's a capitalists dream.
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http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2013/jan/08/uk-benefit-welfare-spending
 
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