firefox or ie7

thepharcyde said:
Cheers chap did not know this, works a charm :)
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Yes. Always a good thing to do that. Makes web browsing with Firefox a lot nicer. :)

Shash said:
Firefox, just because I now know why web developers hate IE7 for one thing :P
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Oh good god yes. Had a Uni project last year to do with developing a site. Opera and Firefox were easy to work with, as in to get pages to render as I wanted them to. IE was very difficult. And all my XHTML and CSS was valid so IE couldn't have had that excuse.
 
MarcLister said:
Oh good god yes. Had a Uni project last year to do with developing a site. Opera and Firefox were easy to work with, as in to get pages to render as I wanted them to. IE was very difficult. And all my XHTML and CSS was valid so IE couldn't have had that excuse.
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Always the same! This is the main reason why I despise IE. If your code was valid, then that's probably why it didn't work with IE! I'm sick of writing standards compliant CSS and HTML, only to have to include any number of hacks and workarounds for IE's abysmal standards compliance. Same goes for pretty much every web developer on the planet.
 
MarcLister said:
Yes. Always a good thing to do that. Makes web browsing with Firefox a lot nicer. :)

Oh good god yes. Had a Uni project last year to do with developing a site. Opera and Firefox were easy to work with, as in to get pages to render as I wanted them to. IE was very difficult. And all my XHTML and CSS was valid so IE couldn't have had that excuse.
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Without trying to have a go (as I know next to nothing about web development), if IE is so bad how come it works so well? I mean when I tried FF (admittedly a good year or so ago now) I found far more web pages that wouldn't work with it than with IE.

Also, whilst I love Safari on my Mac, IE does have one point over it - Facebook crashes Safari. It doesn't crash IE.

I'll give you the point about IE having poor Java utilisation. If I go to a site with lots of Java, IE slows to a crawl for a few seconds. Safari doesn't.
 
Mattus said:
Always the same! This is the main reason why I despise IE. If your code was valid, then that's probably why it didn't work with IE! I'm sick of writing standards compliant CSS and HTML, only to have to include any number of hacks and workarounds for IE's abysmal standards compliance. Same goes for pretty much every web developer on the planet.
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Yes that is probably true. Because it was valid code, it didn't work with IE. I don't think I actually bothered with many IE hacks or workarounds and justified my decision that by spending time supporting IE like this I wasn't really holding the virtues of valid code. Or something like that. I even got away with not even bothering to test/code the site for IE5 or 6 by saying they were even worse than IE7 and IE7 was bad enough! :D

One of my project aims was to create valid and accessible XHTML/CSS coded sites and by supporting IE5/6/7 I wasn't really doing that, I thought. So I didn't bother and argued my reasoning for it. Once you get making sites or become an advanced PC user IE just doesn't cut it. Once you get there you need Firefox or Opera to make surfing better again or less dangerous to your health when coding sites. :)

It is the mass market of PC users who don't really know any better and are just happy with a browser already there for them.

Tute said:
Without trying to have a go (as I know next to nothing about web development), if IE is so bad how come it works so well? I mean when I tried FF (admittedly a good year or so ago now) I found far more web pages that wouldn't work with it than with IE.
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No problem, you aren't having a go. :) Probably a lot of sites designed to work with IE first of all because it dominates the browser market?

W3Schools' statistics show that IE and FF dominate the site in terms of browsers accessing their site. The Firefox stats look quite high until you consider the intended audience of the site which would be those learning HTML/CSS/PHP etc so quite advanced people anyway, thus explaining the high stats for Firefox.

This link shows IE to absolutely dominate the market with at least 70% of the market. Also IE can do ActiveX but nothing else can and I wouldn't mind betting a lot of sites use ActiveX in some way so they'll work better in IE. But I think the general answer is that IE's domination of the browser market is such that a heck of a lot of sites are coded to work with IE first. This means of course that the code probably isn't valid and might not render in Firefox or Opera as well as in IE. Most of the web devs on OcUK absolutely hate IE of course and code their own personal sites and probably any sites they commercially code to work with Firefox and Opera etc by using properly validated code. :)

Tute said:
I'll give you the point about IE having poor Java utilisation. If I go to a site with lots of Java, IE slows to a crawl for a few seconds. Safari doesn't.
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Er, thanks. :p:confused: I'll edit a previous post to include a mention about IE's poor Java skills. :D
 
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IE and Firefox (and Opera, Chrome, Safari) all run Java exactly the same - through the Java plugin. What you're probably thinking about is JavaScript, which is in no way related to Java.

Tute said:
I found far more web pages that wouldn't work with it than with IE.
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Examples? Other than badly-coded sites or sites that rely on MS-proprietary things (like Windows Update or Exchange OWA), Firefox renders the majority of sites perfectly fine.
The reason IE "works so well" is because it's the dominant browser so any sensible developer's got to make it at least look reasonable. Don't be surprised if it does more away from a brain damaged browser though...

yantorsen said:
it looks terrible, it doesn't even integrate with aero like Chrome and IE
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Chrome doesn't do any more than Firefox - a transparent part at the top, so what?
Not even MS can be consistent in styling the apps which come with Vista, so third-party apps can hardly be blamed for not knowing what the hell they're supposed to do.
 
Tute said:
Without trying to have a go (as I know next to nothing about web development), if IE is so bad how come it works so well? I mean when I tried FF (admittedly a good year or so ago now) I found far more web pages that wouldn't work with it than with IE.
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IE needs lots of hacks on the part of the web developer to make it render sites decently, particularly IE6. It also has 70% of the browser market, so any developer whose sites don't work properly in IE isn't going to make very much money. Hacking your sites to make them look right in IE is part and parcel of the job!
 
tolien said:
Chrome doesn't do any more than Firefox - a transparent part at the top, so what?
Not even MS can be consistent in styling the apps which come with Vista, so third-party apps can hardly be blamed for not knowing what the hell they're supposed to do.
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yeah, but it means that the toolbars don't have such a big overal footprint so you can actually see more webpage without scrolling.
 
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