First Build Problems. Help please :)

[The__Malteser]

Hi, just got my new parts, and I ran into my first problem, placement.

Here is a picture of my case (Cooler Master Elite 335)

I go the airflow normally goes from bottom right to top left, i.e. cold air from the right, hot air from the left.

I have a Coolermaster Seidon 120v, and due to the hard disk (etc.) casings on the right, I can't fit it.

Now I was thinking if I can swap round, cold air top, warm air bottom.

Here is my reasoning.

The CPU is going to be water cooled, so it is irrelevant where the air comes from. The GPU is indeed air cooled, and it will be at the bottom, so there will be a 'pipe' that takes the air from exactly under the graphics card, to outside (front of case, bottom right). I know that hot air rises,and this is not idea, but I have no other real solution.

Any help?

Also, I am doing an external build. I assume this is still possible, even though I have a water cooled CPU.

I am using NewEgg's youtube guide

I will await your responses before I continue. Thanks.

 

[The__Malteser]

Does it not fit the fan mount on the rear? blowing out the back (right to left in your pic)

Do you mean inverse the 'sides' of the fan?

Connect rad/fan on top left. Connect other fan bottom right.

Make the fans so that air goes from right to left.

--

But would that mean I would be giving the radiator warm air? I though the radiator fan has to intake cold air (that would be logical imo)

 

[The__Malteser]

But what hot air are you feeding into the Seidon exactly? apart from possibly a bit of heat from the GPU (if there is to be one and perhaps it exhausts straight out the back PCI slots?) there shouldn't be much left generating any warmth.

Think you are worrying a bit too much about it.

I do worry too much yes

So to conclude.

- Put rad/fan top left
- Put other fan bottom right
- Cold air goes in bottom right
- Warm air goes out of top left

That is good thanks.

Do you recommend I do an external build or no?

 

[The__Malteser]

Hmm, ok. I'll build it inside.

That diagram looks much better than what I was doing haha The rad/fan do fit in....just.

Thanks. I'll continue now

 

[The__Malteser]

Problema numero duos! Quick!

My Case had a Micro-ATX mother board inside it. Now I have an ATC motherboard. That means I only have 6 stand offs, while the ATX requires 9 (system was pre-built).

I was just going to do the 3 top ones, and 3 bottom ones, and the rest remain without screws. Surely this is fine?

 

[The__Malteser]

Do the stand offs unscrew from the motherboard tray? if so spread them about a bit, get the corners and one or two in the middle?

Yes, I unscrewed them. As I said, I was going for top 3, bottom 3. Nothing on the middle line.

I might do left column, right column, and leave the middle column empty as you said.

Actually, I'll do as you said.

 

[The__Malteser]

Surprise surprise. The rad doesn't fit in. Actually, it does, but the screws do not line up, so it will have to stay unscrewed. Don't really trust it unscrewed, so I have to think of a solution.

 

[The__Malteser]

The rad/fan are fitted

But it can't be attached to the case from outside as it is too big

I tried lowering the rad down (so at least I get the bottom two) but it doesn't go down enough.

I would have to leave it unscrewed. To be honest, it is in VERY tight. I have to pull for it to come out. Some of the side paint is getting off, just to show you how tight. It is unlikely that it goes off (PC won't move much), but if it ever does, it will fall on the GPU.

I'll see what I can do to get some stands to hold it from the bottom.

I want to thank you for your time and help stulid You have been very help full I think after I get past the case problems, I should be fine. I did all the rest before, but no water cooling in a terrible case.

 

[The__Malteser]

Before testing, I felt that then it would collide with the power supply, so I tested it out.

With little effort, it does fit in. Thankfully, the PSU is a bit smaller than the recommended size, so all the screws fit in.....just.

I think I will leave it like this and advance. Once again, thanks

 

[The__Malteser]

So, all seems to be connected well, although its a bit ghetto. The PSU is outside the case. I just want to get the OS installed and I'm done. Reason is I will have a friend to mod the case for everything to fit.

Two problems,

- its LOUD (although it gets quieter after a bit...)
- I went in BIOS (to change boot priority) and I saw that the CPU temp is over 60 deg C. VERY high. I applied thermal paste well (Arctic Silver 5), covered the whole CPU, and the water block is lighting up blue.

Should I install Win 8 before dealing with the temps or what?

EDIT: Decided to wait for temps to fix themselves.

Pics:

Spoiler

 

[The__Malteser]

just how much thermal paste did you apply?

Well, I can't tell you exactly, I mean, its not a quantity.

Not a lot. Enough to cover the cpu with it. I spread it out myself using the card method, but it seemed quite even in my eyes with no air bubbles.

Did I have to apply more?

 

[The__Malteser]

The Seidon came with paste already applied? and you added more?

On a clean CPU surface add a rice to pea sized blob in the centre and let the clamping force of the cooler spread it out.

What direction is the fan blowing?

Nope, it didn't come with any paste. In fact, it had a sticker on the block.

The fan is blowing from right to left, i.e. from inside the case to outside.

If I have to remove it, and re-apply thermal paste, I need to remove the one I have yes? Once I read I need some alcohol to remove it well. Can anyone remind me exactly what I have to do please. Thanks.

 

[The__Malteser]

Here is the video. (Sorry, I have no idea how to embedd)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gblm2oP_uk&feature=youtu.be

You can not hear it well, but at first the fan goes to speed, then it lowers speed, then you hear the post beep.

It seems connected enough. I didn't use screws, just my hands, so I don't overdo the tightness, but I got it to 'max' tightness with my hands. Not sure if using a screw driver will push it in too much for the pins to bend.

I might rotate the fan, see if that helps.

Ill check if I feel the water.

EDIT: I felt a very small movement touching the pipes when I put on the PC. Nothing too big though. I can feel virtually nothing when its running.

 

[The__Malteser]

When you are in the BIOS there are no CPU speedstep (throttles back the cores when not doing much) but to me 60+ C does seem a bit too much, would have expected 30-35C

It seems to max out around 63/64.

So you are telling me, in the BIOS, it runs at full load?

I do not know the normal temperatures mind, so I do not want to seem like I'm an expert, but 62/64 isn't that high.

I know this is water cooling, but I don't think its a top top cooling solution (it came free).

I have been doing nothing, just searching about it on the internet.

I don't think I need to make it tighter. Wouldn't want to risk bending some pins. I'll see if all sides are tightened the same, although I'm sure I checked that.

Next I'll try swapping the fan intake side.

If that fails, seems like I have to re-apply the thermal paste -.-

On another note, I can't find the USB drivers for Win 8.1 64-bit. Should I just download the Win 8 64-bit drivers? Also, there are 3 links for hotfixes. Do I need all 3? Or will one do fine?

Mobo page

EDIT: WOOP WOOP UPDATE! They weren't as tight as I thought they were. With my hand, they could tighten a bit more. Temps seem to be calm at around 46/47 now. System temp 21. If I tighten them just a teeny wee bit more, should it go a bit more down? As I said, a TEENY bit more. Don't want to bend no pins

EDIT 2: So I don't double post It is stuck at 49 deg, although going up very slowly (1 deg per minute, kinda), not too bad I think.

CPU Fan Speed is at 2343/2351 RPM and CPU OPT Fan Speed at 1558 RPM. Not sure if that is a lot, a bit, or good.

EDIT 3:
I found a few benchmarks (here, here, here)

They all seem to perform a bit better than me (I know the first one has very low watts).

Mine maxes at 50 deg, it jumps between 50 and 49, and it only has 1.116 VCore Voltage.

Should I go a teeny weeny bit tighter?

 

[The__Malteser]

Im not familiar with this cooler, but all the ones I have used, I use a normal sized handle screwdriver and tighten till it stops while holding the handle loosely, certainly dont get a tight grip and twist till your bicep explodes.

If there are springs on the screws that hold it together then these set the tension for you. So tighten away.

I feel I tightened it enough, and temps are still around 50.

There are no springs unfortunately.

I will try rotating the fan intake side. If that fails, I'll try the thermal paste again.

 

[The__Malteser]

Tightening dropped it by 10 degrees so I would guess it's not making proper contact aka too much paste... Then again I have never used that cooler. I would check online to see what temps people report using it

Rotating the fan intake dropped it by a further 5/6 deg.

Now I sit at 45/46, more 45 though (this is always in the bios btw).

I will look at what temps other people got, because I really doubt its a thermal paste issue, because as I said, I feel I had just enough.

 

[The__Malteser]

I feel fairly comfortable with it at 45/46, so I ill go on and install Windows and all the drivers.

I should be modding the case (for the water cooling to fit in better) in a few days/weeks, so then I will remove everything and re apply thermal paste.

 

[The__Malteser]

Went on to install the OS and all that. Did a small Prime 95 tests and here are the results.

Spoiler

Seems quite high considering I have no overclock.

I will mod the case soon, and then I will arrange the cooler.

I have a few questions.

- I installed the motherboard drivers (chipset, LAN, audio) but there seems to be no USB 3.0 driver. Do I just use wht Win 8 one? I am using win 8.1 64-bit. Link to motherboard page. Also, do I need to download any BIOS updates/firmware?

- I downloaded the GPU drivers from the AMD website. What else do I need? I have catalyst and the MSI Gaming App. MSI afterburner doesn't seem to exist for 8.1 64-bit. Do I need to download any BIOS/firmware?

- Same question as the top 2. Does the SSD require any updated firmware? I tried to look for some (Toshiba Q Series 128GB) and found none.

- What else am I missing/forgetting. I installed an anti-virus. Downloaded mouse drivers and headset drivers.

- I want to check the SSD transfer speeds. What program do you all use? A google search gave me nothing.

I apologize for the stupid questions, but its the first system I built myself, and its also the first high end system.

Thanks

 

[The__Malteser]

80C is high, but then the radiator on the Seidon is small and thin (surface area counts for a lot) during normal use you will never get the CPU as hot as it does using Prime95 which is a killer stress test.

• Use Win8 USB3.0 drivers if you dont have working USB3.0 ports, you may also want this patch? - http://www.gigabyte.com/support-downloads/faq-page.aspx?fid=2733

• Catalyst driver is all you need for the GPU.

• SSD needs nothing, maybe disable disk defrag for it (The C: drive?) as this kills them quicker.

• Use Atto, Crystal diskmark to test transfer speeds.

I know its high. I also know I will never reach Prime temps, but it still seems quite high. I was speaking to a friend who has built a lot of PCs, and he said that when I spread the paste, I might have had an air bubble. Eventually, I will re-apply it, and let the contact point distribute the paste.

Cool, I'll get the Win 8 drives. Also saw the hot fixes (they are on the same DL page) so I will get them all.

Good

Yep, its the C: drive. I had disabled it already.

I will test

Thanks stulid for all your help

EDIT: Regarding USB 3.0, it tells me the update is not meant for my computer. I am assuming the Win 8 drivers don't work. In device manager, I see no errors in the USB section, but one for SM Bus Controller. Not even sure what it is :S

 

[The__Malteser]

Ok, So lets talk air flow.

I pretty much did the holes for the watercooling, and I am in the process of deciding on my airflow.

I am thinking about something like this

The orange boxes are 120mm fans. The grey dashed boxes are 80mm fans which are ON THE SIDE OF THE CASE.

Normal air flow comes in from the bottom of the case. The bottom of the side of the case is air in fort he graphics card, and the one on the top is for the motherboard/CPU block. The 120mm fan on the left is the primary air output. The other air output is the 120mm fan which is used for the radiator. When i did that now, I went up by around 5deg. What I was told was putting another fan on the bottom of the rad, so it pushes air quicker and gives lower temps. My mobo only supports 4 fans 1 CPU fan, so I would need to connect it directly to the PSU Would prefer to avoid it if the gains are negligible.