First HDR C&C if you will?
- Thread starter Clowned
- Start date
Are you guys missing the point?!
It may not need it, but what's wrong with the OP using it if that's what they like?
I just hate people setting 'rules' for photography. It's a creative thing, and if we all did the same, how boring would that be?!
Anyway, I've made my feelings known, so it's somebody else's turn now.
oh believe me i do beleive that we shouldnt all do the same thing, that's why it really narks me when you get people doing HDR just because HDR is the cool thing to do, without any real thought as to WHY use hdr, will it aid the image, was it a good image in the first place, and are just throwing crap through HDR software and expecting miracles.
This place is here for critique, and im giving my critique.
This place is here for critique, and im giving my critique.
Are you guys missing the point?!
It may not need it, but what's wrong with the OP using it if that's what they like?
I just hate people setting 'rules' for photography. It's a creative thing, and if we all did the same, how boring would that be?!
Anyway, I've made my feelings known, so it's somebody else's turn now.
From your one-track-minded posts, I'd say you're missing the point.
There is nothing wrong with using HDR to improve a photo, providing you either:
a) improve the photo
b) have a photo that would actually be worth improving
In my opinion, neither criteria have been fulfilled by the HDR here. The outcome is too dark, there doesn't appear to be enough colour in the image, but it's not a black and white conversion. It just doesn't work for me.
Yes, there are photography rules, but all they could ever possibly be built on is tried and tested methods. Like all rules (especially rules for creative disciplines), interpretation and bending can greatly improve your style or your image. Even blatant disregard can work, because the rules aren't catch-all and they don't apply to every situation.
This photo, however, is a pedestrian attempt at a landscape. The darkness of it means that it loses all detail, there is too much of the focal point in there for it to be what I would call a good landscape and not enough to be abstract. It doesn't show an awareness of rules, much less an attempt to break/interpret/disregard them. It looks just like a point-shot.
There's a couple of reasons as to why I think HDR didn't work on/wasn't necessary on this photo. My apologies for brutal honesty, but Tooks' incessant whining forced my hand.
Oh, look out, it's the self appointed HDR police....
Critique is fine, but you should remember to add constructive to it.
Also, you really should be aware of how the OP might feel reading some of what you all just wrote. You may have heard of the saying that if you can't say anything good, then maybe it's better to say nothing at all?
Apologies if you see my posts as whining, but I prefer to challenge people who don't see any way of doing things other than their own, and who incidentally have said very little in the way of helpful comments on how the OP might improve his image.
Saying it's a crap implementation of HDR isn't exactly what I take the phrase 'C&C welcome' to mean.
You have come across as very arrogant in my opinion...
Oh, look out, it's the self appointed HDR police....
I prefer to think of myself as a self-appointed opinion machine. What was asked for.
What about my criticism wasn't constructive? I said why I didn't like the photo: "The outcome is too dark, there doesn't appear to be enough colour in the image" - actions could be inferred:
-Increase exposure
-Increase contrast
-Increase saturation
-Adjust levels
pick any of the above.
I am very aware of how the OP might take my comments. However, through no fault of his own, you forced me to make them in such a stark way because you seemed to need me to continuously quantify my opinion. If it was your photo, I could understand why you're being so defensive.
If someone asks for criticism, chances are you're going to have to say something "not nice". You'll have to live with that, or don't post your photos for opinion. (take a look around - I don't post mine because I don't care what any of you think!)
You don't progress in anything if you can't see different ways of doing them. As I said previously in this post, I have given enough actions that I would take to improve the photo.
I always thought C&C stood for comments and criticism. That's exactly what I gave in the first instance.
That's unsurprising. I'm quite arrogant.
Well, now you've explictly said some things he could try, maybe now he can. He said he was a newbie afterall, and it's probably more helpful to be explicit than let inferences be drawn on this kind of forum, and in this situation.
What, I forced you to type what you did? My my... I was asking for people to quantify their opinion, because that's what I'd like people to do if it was me posting for views. This forum is becoming almost worthless for developing photography skills because it seems to me that a lot of posts are;
a) full of sycophantic remarks from forum cliques blowing smoke up peoples backsides, or
b) full of arrogant comment from people who think they know it all, and stifle any attempts at photography that don't conform to the 'rule book'.
I just believe that feedback should be given in a more constructive way. I Like... I'm Concerned... I Suggest....? That's my opinion, and I have no problem giving it, and care even less if you think it's daft!
No, you really hadn't.
Enough said then...
when it's your picture, I guess you can be more picky. Sadly for you, it's my prerogative what I say and don't say when I'm commenting on someone's photo. Maybe my initial intent wasn't obvious to you, but if someone says something's too dark, what is your natural instinct? To make it lighter, maybe? I think so.
Hole in one. Something we agree on. Tell me, do you jump on the people who say "fantastic photo" to obvious pieces of crap, or just the people with negative comments to make?
If I'd seen more evidence of this when I was starting out, I'd probably have become happy with my standard of photography/development a lot quicker. Blunt honesty with this sort of thing is far better than diplomatic nonsense or no comments at all. The last time I posted some photos on here, I had to goad the whole forum to say anything negative and it INSTANTLY helped give me awareness of what I needed to change in my observation of a scene and my trying to attain a decent result in processing. All from tough love. Some people made comments that I didn't understand, so I asked them to clarify and they did. (here: see how the photos improved with some tough love?)
Is the OP a relative of yours? I'm trying to figure out why you're being so protective.
I don't think it's daft - what I do think is daft is that you think your little rules apply to everyone who posts. Heads up: they don't.
In your opinion. See above.
Apparently not.
LOL!
You really don't like views other than yours do you?
I'm sure you're a nice guy in the 'real world', but I don't get why people are so rude when behind a monitor.
The thread of yours you linked to illustrates what I'm talking about perfectly.
Your pictures improved because people actually posted specific things you could try to improve them, and heck they even posted some they'd worked on for you!
If only people in this thread had been so helpful. That's my beef really, that enough folk came forward to say it was rubbish, and a few (including me!) said it was a bit dark. Nobody said anything more helpful than that (yes, including me!).
I'm not a relation to the OP, and don't know why I decided to wade into this one, I guess this thread was just the straw that broke the camels back to be honest!
Anyway, I think it has got way too serious now, so I'll be gracious and apologise if I rubbed you up the wrong way, it really wasn't meant to be personal!!
We've probably scared everybody off from commenting further now, which would be a shame.
You really don't like views other than yours do you?
I'm sure you're a nice guy in the 'real world', but I don't get why people are so rude when behind a monitor.
The thread of yours you linked to illustrates what I'm talking about perfectly.
Your pictures improved because people actually posted specific things you could try to improve them, and heck they even posted some they'd worked on for you!
If only people in this thread had been so helpful. That's my beef really, that enough folk came forward to say it was rubbish, and a few (including me!) said it was a bit dark. Nobody said anything more helpful than that (yes, including me!).
I'm not a relation to the OP, and don't know why I decided to wade into this one, I guess this thread was just the straw that broke the camels back to be honest!
Anyway, I think it has got way too serious now, so I'll be gracious and apologise if I rubbed you up the wrong way, it really wasn't meant to be personal!!
We've probably scared everybody off from commenting further now, which would be a shame.
What I don't like is people telling me what I should and shouldn't say.
I'm very nice in real life. I'm not being rude now - but if I didn't like the photo/what you were saying in real life, I'd tell you I promise.
The thread of yours you linked to illustrates what I'm talking about perfectly.
Your pictures improved because people actually posted specific things you could try to improve them, and heck they even posted some they'd worked on for you!
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Like I said before, the only reason I didn't post step-by-step is partially because I thought the course of action would be obvious from there and partially because I didn't really like the photo in the first place.
Tut tut at you! Did you not post any advice because you thought "I've said this is too dark, the obvious course of action would be to make it lighter"?
I'm not a relation to the OP, and don't know why I decided to wade into this one, I guess this thread was just the straw that broke the camels back to be honest!
Anyway, I think it has got way too serious now, so I'll be gracious and apologise if I rubbed you up the wrong way, it really wasn't meant to be personal!!
We've probably scared everybody off from commenting further now, which would be a shame.
Hey, I didn't take it personally. I was just trying to see where you were coming from. No need to apologise at all!
I've been tempted, especially with a couple of recent ones, but I guess I'm just far too polite!!
Yeah, tell me about it. You come off as even more of an ass when you start having a go at people who are being nice
Totally opposed to what I've said, I decided to have a quick play with the original image to see if I could pull anything I liked out of it:
Took the 249.NEF and:
Auto levels and adjusted mid RGB to the black end
Temp: 5794k
Tint: 10
Upped contrast
Upped exposure
Upped saturation
Increase saturation and luminance of blues, yellows and greens.
Hey, I actually quite like that!
It shows what can be done as an alternative.
Seriously, it wasn't my intention to tell people what to say or not, just a plea to folks to be more helpful and constructive.
Anyway, you've more than done your bit now!!
It shows what can be done as an alternative.
Seriously, it wasn't my intention to tell people what to say or not, just a plea to folks to be more helpful and constructive.
Anyway, you've more than done your bit now!!
A brunt piece of toast is still a burnt piece of toast whether you like it that way or not.
[/crap analogy]Imo hdr is designed to bring out some shadows and contrast that you can't capture in real life without massive lighting setups, although it can make funky looking pieces of art if you want.
If your trying to improve an image it best to merge some areas of a hdr layer over the original in PS (or similar) to enhance lacking areas of a photo.
If you would post the raw (im presuming u made the hdr from one? Then i could make an example.
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A brunt piece of toast is still a burnt piece of toast whether you like it that way or not.
Imo hdr is designed to bring out some shadows and contrast that you can't capture in real life without massive lighting setups, although it can make funky looking pieces of art if you want.
If your trying to improve an image it best to merge some areas of a hdr layer over the original in PS (or similar) to enhance lacking areas of a photo.
If you would post the raw (im presuming u made the hdr from one? Then i could make an example.
it's from 3 raws, which are in here: http://gallery.ind1ekid.com/ocuk/
Ah the eternal HDR debate. I'm not going to bother adding much, as it's already all been said. Just simply then ... for me, this photo probably didn't require HDR and the processing has spoilt it. Naturally, photography doesn't have to be about anybody but yourself (though posting on a forum would suggest otherwise), however, and if that's what the OP wanted to do with it, then that's fine.
The version directly above is more in line with what I would do.
The version directly above is more in line with what I would do.
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Thanks for all the input, ill try to take it all in for next time I take the camera out!
Really like what you've done with it there ChroniC.
I do quite like my own take of the hdr, but obviously posted it here to see what everyone else had to say about it. So mission accomplished! Definately see it as being too dark though now you've all said that! I shall have a dig through some of the other pics, and post a couple after some thoughtful processing
Really like what you've done with it there ChroniC.