First hifi setup sounds "flat" and disappointing

Ste said:
I'd get a pair of cheap stands (or even wall brackets if you can't fit stands in) and, depending on budget, either upgrade the source to an M-audio soundcard (decent onboard DACs), or a dedicated DAC (£100 up).

The speaker cable and interconnect are also worth looking at, but in terms of sorting the sound out you've got to look at the speaker positioning first.
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Cheers ste. As a temporary solution I've moved the one in the bookshelves onto a speaker. And I'll go grab some blue tac now ^^ . But I'll have a think about the long term. Like I mentioned above, I'm on the look out for a massive desk and if they were positioned on either side it wouldn't be too bad. Though I'm certainly considering wall brackets. It would leave the desk less cluttered for a start!

Regarding the DAC (and to be honest that price tag rules it out I think), is it basically a sound card in a box? I.e. would I not need a sound card anymore if I bought one?
 
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Effectively yes. Usually of higher quality intended for music playback, rather than accelerated game features for example. DAC = Digital Analogue Converter
Basically it takes a digital input and turns it into analogue sound pulses, the better quality the DAC, the better the sound coming out.
 
james.miller said:
you must drop the the preamp level if you are going to do that, by the same amount that the biggest gain is applied. ie, if one of the sliders is +10, drop the preamp to -10. otherwise you risk overdriving the signal into distortion before it even reaches the amplifier.
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I don't use the EQ, but yes, you're right. It's always better to apply defeat to what you don't want rather than gain to what you do... :)
 
Alexrose1uk said:
Effectively yes. Usually of higher quality intended for music playback, rather than accelerated game features for example. DAC = Digital Analogue Converter
Basically it takes a digital input and turns it into analogue sound pulses, the better quality the DAC, the better the sound coming out.
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Okay. Well this is definitely something worth considering. Assuming I listen mostly to music is a DAC an outright better choice than a sound card if I have £100 to spend? Or is it more complex than that?

Well, I'll be less lazy and research them myself :p .

EDIT: **Shrieks of pleasure** I have an avatar! And to think I could have had it 50 posts ago!
 
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If your main use of your pc is music, then yes it could well be worth it. If you can find somewhere that will let you hear them or a seller who would demo you can see what you think. FLAC plus a decent DAC is pretty much the best way of getting audio from a PC. I use my AV amp as a DAC, as my sound is all transported as PCM via HDMI :)
 
Alexrose1uk said:
FLAC plus a decent DAC is pretty much the best way of getting audio from a PC.
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I'm going to do as much testing as I possibly can. But how does that compare to music direct from a good quality CD player?

Or, for that matter, an MP3 player. If someone could explain how MP3s on an MP3 player are converted from digital to analogue and whether there is much difference between a 'good' MP3 player and a 'bad' one, that'd be fab.

Alexrose1uk said:
I use my AV amp as a DAC, as my sound is all transported as PCM via HDMI :)
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Once again, I won't pretend to understand that :D
 
One thing i find about the wharedale diamond 9.1s is they are little weak in the bass department and the overall sound is "weak" is the best way to describe it, they don't give much of a grunt or a punch just mellow and "nice" sounding speakers.

If its not too let get hold of some kef speakers for a deeper bass or some mordaunt short ( 902s are excellent ) for a more punchy bass and a little overall more grunt....

Also as others have mentioned the soundcard is *very* important considering that is your digital to analogue convertor a poor sound card kills dynamic range ( makes it all sound flat ) and again takes away that nice punch to music, can also make good music a chore to listen too and becomes tiring after a period of time.
 
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rIcK said:
If its not too let get hold of some kef speakers for a deeper bass or some mordaunt short ( 902s are excellent ) for a more punchy bass and a little overall more grunt....
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Was round my mate's today, listening to his Mordaunt Shorts (I should think they were 902s, but I'll ask him tomorrow). It was much more the sound I was hoping for (though he had a subwoofer and was using a Cambridge Azur amp and CD player).
 
Kua said:
I'm going to do as much testing as I possibly can. But how does that compare to music direct from a good quality CD player?

Or, for that matter, an MP3 player. If someone could explain how MP3s on an MP3 player are converted from digital to analogue and whether there is much difference between a 'good' MP3 player and a 'bad' one, that'd be fab.



Once again, I won't pretend to understand that :D
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FLAC via a good DAC is (or should be) identical to a reasonable CD player (I'm not getting into £1000 CD players!), as they're effectively doing the same thing with the same source. FLAC=CD. The CD player/DAC just decodes the input and converts it to an analogue output which can then be run into an amp. The higher the quality of this conversion, the better your sound has the potential to be.

An mp3 player works by using a decoder chip which converts mp3s into a readable digital format, then puts this through a DAC. So yes, there are some that have more oomph behind them because they have a better DAC chip, or they have a slightly higher power output, or both.

And basically, PCM is a digital sound format, much like wave. Uncompressed audio basically. My 4870 has a HDMI audio chip onboard that allows me to use it as a sound card. It outputs PCM which is then sent to my Yamaha RX-V1800 and decoded by the amp. As the amp is not a cheap one, it sounds just as good if not better than my old X-Fi setup, without any tricks and treats, just straight mode on the amp.

Mordaunt 902i are good speakers, my friend has some, they do lose a little of the initial sharpness as they age; however because of the new/name factor they sometimes hold they're value stronger than some older, better speakers, so you can pay more £ per sound than some older, better speakers which aren't as well known.
 
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Something that seems to have been overlooked; are the speakers wired out of phase?

An M-Audio 2496 is a great budget card if you just want great stereo sound, it even has RCA outputs instead of 3.5mm ones. There are now drivers for all OS even the 64bit ones.

Some slightly better cable may improve things as well, even some couple of pound a meter stuff will be better than what you have your speakers wired with at the moment.

Speaker placement will also help things, stands would be the ideal solution but just getting them placed so the tweeter is near to ear level (when sat down) would improve things.

Dave
 
The first post had it right..

-Ad- said:
Firstly you have to let the speakers wear in.

Secondly and most importantly, you are not used to how music should sound. A car stereo, cheap mini hifi and especially cheap spc speakers will sound bassy and tinny. You have jsut never heard midrange before and are having withdrawl symptoms from boomy bass and tinnyness ;)

Also, how is it setup in your room, what stands are you using, etc etc ? Also what quality of music are you using from your pc ?
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I had the same problem when I first got my B&W's off a fellow member here, I really wasn't to keen on the sound at first, they felt too revealing, I was more used to deep and bassy cheapo floor standers. The main thing that was hard to get used to was the mid range, like many people I also loved the smiley face EQ setup, this was mainly because cheaper speakers tend to do a poor job on the mid range front so we compensate by smoothing it out with mr smiley EQ and we get used to that sound.

If I was you I'd whack some tunes on via CD or FLAC with no EQ that show you the benefits of having a more revealing mid-range, something like the Album 'Piece by Piece' by Katie Melua, a fantastically well recorded CD, the vocals on that album are just sublime, really makes you appreciate good mid range presentation.
 
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Speakers were second hand. So unless not used will be run in.
Issue is with two problems. Weak front end, as the speakers and the amp gets better they are telling more accurately how the Sound card sounds, so it will get worse..... Rubbish in Rubbish out.
Use either a separate DAC connected by SPDIF or USB.

Second, speaker position makes a big difference on bass and the general drive and life of the music. Experiment to find the best position in the room, and types of support.
 
Hey Kua,

Glad you sorted yourself out with some components!

Like 9designs2 says. Speaker position is important.

Also, after reading through i would certainly agree with those that recommend a DAC.

As well as my 'proper' hifi i used to use some quality headphones driven by a headphone amp for my PC gaming and night time music listening. Although i could 'just about' tailor the sound to my needs i always thought it was lacking in depth, detail and suffered greatly from electronic noise from the PC itself:

For example - pause your music and then turn the amp up. If it buzzes, hums or crackles then that's the sound. :(

When i upgraded to a DAC the difference was truly astonishing. If your PC mobo has a digital out there's no need for an expensive soundcard either.

Precision, punch and dynamic range were all restored to what i believed they should have been in the first place! Very happy and certainly highly recommended! :D

gt
 
It could just be the combination of kit. My first hi-fi was a Cambridge CD4SE (still got it as it's a fantatic piece of kit), a Cambridge A3i and MS20i Pearls.

It sounded terrible.

I'd heard all the pieced seperately, but never together. I held on to it for about 8 months and then I bought some new speakers, Celestion F10s, and the whole thing came alive. Changing the speakers transformed the entire system.
 
I would expect more to the effect poor sound from the card to be his biggest problem. It is my only my opinion though. You could try and get a more audio based card to sort the issue, or go the whole hog and get a DAC if you have a digital out from your mobo/sound card.

I would try and find somewhere nearby which may be able to demo you something, or allow you to bring your stuff along to compare other speakers perhaps?

It is worth hooking up a cheap-ish cd player if you really think something is amiss with your amp/speaker combo as perhaps you could try some alternatives if it still sounds lifeless.

Good luck!
 
Ingleton? I live in Hellifield. Wasnt the shop in Settle was it?

Anyway there should be a big difference, the biggest being when you crank up the volume, it hard to describe but the louder you get the better the sound should get. Could be the speakers are borked but tbh you need decent soundcard in there like the m-audio (£50) creative just wont cut it at all tbh you'll just loose to much detail.
 
Edinho said:
Ingleton? I live in Hellifield. Wasnt the shop in Settle was it?
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Heya o/ . I didn't know there was an audio shop in Settle - although if someone pointed it out, I'd probably go "Oh yeah, that shop".

I've just played my Basement Jaxx CD (1411kb/s) immediately followed by a ripped version (just 128kb/s) and honestly I can't detect a lot of difference . It could just be me and my unrefined ears! I'm gonna hook up my DVD player in a bit and see if that changes things. Can someone tell me whether the CD player in a PC uses the sound card?
 
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