First time buyers, raising enquiries with solicitors

bainbridge · 4 Mar 2020 at 20:14

Hi all

According to the solicitors app we're 61% towards completion. Mortgage offer has been received and we've received lots of info about the property but that's raised a question about boundary fences.

The plan shows the boundary of the property which matches with google maps which is great, however there's no mention of who owns the boundary fences. The property information questionnaire completed by the vendor says the front and rear boundary fences are our responsibility, which is obvious because nobody backs onto us, but she's marked the left and right side boundaries as 'unknown'.

One of the steps towards completion is 'raising enquiries'. Do we get to solicitors to find the answer to the above question by 'raising an enquiry'?

Sorry if it seems a daft question but it's all new to us!

Usher · 4 Mar 2020 at 20:34

If you ask them they will probably decide a 'site visit' is required and ramp up your bill considerably, and for a site visit it will be extortianate.
If it's not obvious who owns the fence, such as which side are the posts, or if it feather edge panels with posts in between the usual way is for the owner to have the boards overlapping downwards, the neighbour will see the boards as though they are upside down. The unwritten rule for hedges is usually the owner of each house accepts the right side as their boundary responsibility

Skillmister · 4 Mar 2020 at 22:45

Usher said:
.
If it's not obvious who owns the fence, such as which side are the posts, or if it feather edge panels with posts in between the usual way is for the owner to have the boards overlapping downwards, the neighbour will see the boards as though they are upside down. The unwritten rule for hedges is usually the owner of each house accepts the left side as their boundary responsibility

This is all completely false

Skillmister · 4 Mar 2020 at 22:50

@bainbridge the form the seller fills in is simply their understanding of whose responsibility the boundaries are. Most people have no idea and either guess, answer it based on an old wives tale like posted above or simply copy what their seller put on the form.

The title deeds may have some more information (usually either specifically saying they are shared or indicated by T markings on plans) but often there is no information so you should just assume they are shared.

Ask your solicitor and they will look in the deeds and tell you if the answer is there.

"raising enquiries" is asking more questions based on the documents the sellers provided. Usually there will be bits the seller hasn't filled in properly or more information needed. And yes if you've got anything specific you want to know ask them to find out.

Rotty · 5 Mar 2020 at 00:03

the deeds should have a sidewards "T" on the fence, the side it is on is who owns it

danlightbulb · 5 Mar 2020 at 00:18

People who dont know simple facts about the house that they own should be shot on site.

I knew everything about houses i have previously owned and where I didnt know, I found out.

Its like not knowing what engine is in your car or when it was last serviced.

Usher · 5 Mar 2020 at 08:58

Skillmister said:
This is all completely false

Says who? you? point out the errors for me regarding the accepted ways fencing is installed etc that can give clues as to which side installed it. I also used words such as 'the usual way' and the 'unwritten rule'

ubern00b · 5 Mar 2020 at 10:36

Edit: Ignore, didn't read everything in the thread.

Skillmister · 5 Mar 2020 at 10:54

Usher said:
Says who? you? point out the errors for me regarding the accepted ways fencing is installed etc that can give clues as to which side installed it. I also used words such as 'the usual way' and the 'unwritten rule'

The unwritten rule is that 3 * 4 = fish. Prove me wrong.

OK :rolleyes:

Usher · 5 Mar 2020 at 11:09

Skillmister said:
The unwritten rule is that 3 * 4 = fish. Prove me wrong.

OK

This explains your original post

Skillmister · 5 Mar 2020 at 11:22

Usher said:
This explains your original post

You're the one telling someone to believe an old wives tale that has no basis in the real world instead of following legal advice!

Semple · 5 Mar 2020 at 11:35

danlightbulb said:
People who dont know simple facts about the house that they own should be shot on site.

I knew everything about houses i have previously owned and where I didnt know, I found out.

Its like not knowing what engine is in your car or when it was last serviced.

Hmm it's a bit of a poor analogy, because to find out your cars engine you just refer to the spec. For servicing, you'd either have a book, receipts or even the servicing garage holding those records.

Whilst i agree for any developments over the last ~30 years *should* have accurate land registry entries regarding land boundaries and fence ownership etc, unfortunately there's a lot of housing across the UK that's very old, and boundary maps can very easily be misinterpreted. As Skillmister mentioned earlier, the property information form that you have to fill out, if you're unsure of an answer, you're more than likely to put down whatever the previous owner did. Afterall, if there's been no contest to the fences/boundaries etc, then it's possibly correct.

Usher · 5 Mar 2020 at 11:53

Skillmister said:
You're the one telling someone to believe an old wives tale that has no basis in the real world instead of following legal advice!

Your totally missing the point, the original question posed by the OP is who owns the fence, the answer is whoever paid for and installed it.
It's not about who owns the boundary according to the plans
I own both fences because I put them there with the agreements of both neighbours so how do you presume a solicitor can find this out?

Jez · 5 Mar 2020 at 11:56

Unless you are talking many acres of land with substantial boundaries to maintain, or particularly beautiful high stone walls or similar, i am really not sure why anybody would consider boundary ownership to be a material consideration to be honest. I'd just move on with the unknown answer personally in this case, unless the answer was particularly easy to have clarified.

bainbridge · 5 Mar 2020 at 12:36

Thanks for the replies folks, I'll asl sols to check the deeds.

My main reason for wanting to know is that since our offer was accepted storm Dennis blew down 5 fence panels in the back garden, 2 either side and one at the back. Cj hole assured us that their property management team will replace them in time for the exchange, so I initially thought all the fences were ours, but I've since found out that cj hole are also managing the lease for the outgoing tenants, so I really don't know.

The fence panels are untreated and hanging but the concrete posts are solid, I'll replace them all if I have to, but want to know the legal side fully first.

SeatIbiza · 5 Mar 2020 at 17:21

Hang on a second, what are you buying here? A leasehold house or flat?

I've posted similar advice in the other post about fences, the deeds likely won't have anything marked on them. Original transfers might, if you can get hold of them. If there is a managing agent involved and is going to replace them prior to your completion, then that shouldn't be at your cost. However, it might come up on the finances after you've bought it...that beign said, if they're saying they're doing it then it's your fence and the bills from said fence will be yours to pay (split between however many leaseholders there are)...

bainbridge · 5 Mar 2020 at 20:29

SeatIbiza said:
Hang on a second, what are you buying here? A leasehold house or flat?

I've posted similar advice in the other post about fences, the deeds likely won't have anything marked on them. Original transfers might, if you can get hold of them. If there is a managing agent involved and is going to replace them prior to your completion, then that shouldn't be at your cost. However, it might come up on the finances after you've bought it...that beign said, if they're saying they're doing it then it's your fence and the bills from said fence will be yours to pay (split between however many leaseholders there are)...

It's a freehold end terrace house. The estate agents dealing with the sale also happen to be the letting agents for the current tenants - at least that's my understanding.

b0rn2sk8 · 5 Mar 2020 at 23:35

Assuming your moving in you need to make sure the landlord has taken back possession of the property and the contract with the tenants has been terminated before you exchange.

bainbridge · 6 Mar 2020 at 08:42

b0rn2sk8 said:
Assuming your moving in you need to make sure the landlord has taken back possession of the property and the contract with the tenants has been terminated before you exchange.

Yes that's sorted, tenants have been given notice and their tenancy ends 23/4

SeatIbiza · 6 Mar 2020 at 20:19

bainbridge said:
It's a freehold end terrace house. The estate agents dealing with the sale also happen to be the letting agents for the current tenants - at least that's my understanding.

Ah ok, makes sense. If they're repairing it, should be a fairly good indication that it is theirs (soon to be yours), although not a guarantee for sure.