Flash to revolutionize the web.. again

MR.B

MR.B

MR.B

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Thought i'd bring this up... Flash Player 11 will be out soon-ish, it has some new API's called Molehill, which besically lets Flash fully use the GPU to accelerated anything, 3D or 2D. Now you'll be seeing up to console-level 3D graphics in Flash. There will finally be advanced full 3D games on the net, for free, that you can play in any browser and on any OS/Device with Flash support (like Android phones). Flash can also create apps so downloadable games could be made that dont even need a browser.

So heres some demo's... first of all you need Flash Incubator which is a early preview of Flash Player 11.

Demo's:

Max Racer (a bit like PGR on the 360)
Realistic head
Water manipulation
Zombie Tycoon (seems to be a finished game)
Ducks
Metallic head
Doom 3 flying head

2D and perfromance examples:

2D perfomance with Molehill (hardware acceleration) and without
More Molehile speed examples and article

And yeah i know theres WebGL, part of the HTML5 spec - but browser support is limited, performance varies in each browser, the standard still isn't complete even though people have been talking about it for 6+ years, and the dev tools are almost non-existant and poor. Put it this way, Flash Player 11 preview has been out around a month and already theres way more 3D content appearing with it. It will do for 3D content and games what it did for video a few years back. When you make something in Flash it instantly looks and works exactly the same in all browsers, all major OS's, and any device with Flash support. Or it can be turned into a standalone app for desktop of phone with a few mouse clicks.

Thoughts? :)
 
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tntcoder said:
I wonder if it will work with Linux.

Adobe really need to do more work on cross platform support, standards and openness :(
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For openness ... all the Flash .SWF format, Flash compiler and all Flash related stuff specifications are published, open-source and free! :)
Only the Flash Professionnal software, which is part of the Creative Suite, is proprietary.

As for cross platform support, nothing else rivals Flash for this... yeah Linux is a bit hit and miss, but it's the same reason why browser hardware acceleration on Linux is hit and miss... the drivers and code are a mess on that system, things are missing, broke, or just dont work well.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
The sooner flash dies the better :p
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Why? :confused: without Flash, Youtube, games, interaction, and animations would not exist. We would still be stuck in the 90's with static HTML pages and needing loads of codecs and video players for each sites different video implementation. HTML5 can finally do some of these things, but not half as many and it often uses more CPU to do it.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
In steps HTML5 and WebGL. Tra flash.
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Which as i've explaied are inferior in every way. I dont want to make content and games that may or not work in whatever browser, or perform or look differently depending on browser speed or how the browser handles the standard. Each browser can still render a basic web page diffently, imagine how it fares with complex games?

You make something once in Flash and you have instant cross browser/cross platform support.
Flash 3D content is already overtaking WebGL and FP11 preview has only been out a month. So obviously other devs see this logic.
 
"instant cross browser/cross platform support".. no you don't. Flash on Linux *SUCKS*. I cannot emphasise that word enough. It is grotesquely insecure and inefficient.

The only reason HTML5 and WebGL have been slow to pickup is because certain browser vendors (*cough* Microsoft *cough*) refuse to acknowledge web standards for so long. Now that they are finally pulling their thumb out, they are moving along again, and we will see true cross browser/platform/etc. implementations.

I repeat: the sooner flash dies, the better. :p
 
How is Flash inefficient? Look at HTML5 demo's of it doing the same things as Flash and watch as it uses more CPU :p

The only reason HTML5 and WebGL have been slow to pickup
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...and the fact that the standard still is not complete, and wont be for some time. Even though it's been in developement for 10+ years.
You will NEVER get things in HTML5 like games or advanced content that can rival Flash. In a years time i would actually bet a ton of money that Flash 3D games/content out number WebGL games by something like 100 to 1. Because of the reasons i've mentioned before. Theres just too many variables with browsers and even if all browser fully support HTML5 100% you will still have issues of different performance in each, and each rendering things differently.
 
I can get the exact same kind of results for any browser - performance issues, bugs, security issues, and anything else. The Flash Player deals with more complex things, like video and animation so it's more prone to have issues on certain hardware.
With HTML5 browsers are having more and more of these problems
 
I thought I'd said goodbye to flash, but this does look quite exciting, HTML5 is what I find revolutionary, but its still being held back, and untill it becomes a major cross platform, this is where flash can fill the grab for the short time.

Although I'd be happy to never see a flash website/gallery/menu ever again.
 
HTML5 is not a replacement to Flash, and is not intended as such... I dont know why some people think HTML5 could ever possibly replace Flash though. I guess it's lack of knowledge about the platform. Flash will always be better suited to certain tasks and the many things that HTML5 still cant do. Theres just so many things in my line of work that are better suited to Flash, or it's simply not possible to do with HTML5.
For features it will also always remain ahead of HTML5 as it gets yearly updates. Since version 10 it's had many new features. The gap between HTML4 to HTML5 was over 10 years. Molehill demonstrated here took around 2 years to create, in contrast HTML5 is still not complete because of all the parties and the long process involved. 2012 is when HTML5 may get Candidate Recommendation and 2022 is the estimated date for full interpretation of the HTML5 spec.
IE9 can now handle a lot of the HTML5 spec, and most browsers support HTML5 pretty well now but how many sites are using HTML5 for interaction, animation, games or video? The answer is pretty much none of them. Flash adoption has not dropped in the slightest, even youtube will always use Flash for videos as it's main choice because it has superior streaming options, more versatility/capability, and better DRM support for the film studios, all of which unlike the HTML5 spec will be improved upon each year.
 
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There are some things Flash shouldn't be used for, and it's a real shame HTML5 is taking so long to replace it there. <_< Microsoft....

A 3d flash game which doesn't destroy a cpu can only be an improvement and what's wrong with having two platforms trying to deliver a full screen 3d game? Competition brings innovation. By logic, ~all internet users will have both technologies installed anyway when it comes to market.

(Besides, any new Flash has to be an improvement on the current Flash on Mac...)
 
MR.B said:
IE9 can now handle a lot of the HTML5 spec, and most browsers support HTML5 pretty well now but how many sites are using HTML5 for interaction, animation, games or video? The answer is pretty much none of them.
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Which shouldn't be surprising considering IE9 was only released a couple days ago. On top of that, current stats for the month have IE usage at around 45%, without including IE9. I don't know anyone who would intentionally cut out that large of a percentage of their market.
 
Tripnologist said:
Which shouldn't be surprising considering IE9 was only released a couple days ago. On top of that, current stats for the month have IE usage at around 45%, without including IE9. I don't know anyone who would intentionally cut out that large of a percentage of their market.
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Look at it this way... Something like Silverlight has roughly 50% install base on computers, so making content for that is cutting out half of all net users. Yet you still get way more people choosing to develop with Silverlight for interactive sites and games. Even when HTML5 has 80% or more user base i cant see it even competing with Silverlight for this stuff, let alone Flash. The plugins hold so many advanatages. And if anyone on here was to actually develope for these plugins thereself they would understand what i mean. Rather than spouting the mindless "it's not open source HTML5 is the future" rubbish.
Theres the ideal world and then theres reality.
 
Dj_Jestar said:
"instant cross browser/cross platform support".. no you don't. Flash on Linux *SUCKS*. I cannot emphasise that word enough. It is grotesquely insecure and inefficient.

The only reason HTML5 and WebGL have been slow to pickup is because certain browser vendors (*cough* Microsoft *cough*) refuse to acknowledge web standards for so long. Now that they are finally pulling their thumb out, they are moving along again, and we will see true cross browser/platform/etc. implementations.

I repeat: the sooner flash dies, the better. :p
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+1
 
The advantage of flash is that it will run the same in any browser without having to **** around fixing bits here and there to make it work with one browser that is being a pain, but the disadvantage is that it's very very heavy.

The OP was how number 11 is bringing 3d gaming stuff to the net and that it's gonna be revolutionary, the thing is 3d gaming platforms are already available and have been for quite some time so the 'revolution', if there was gonna be one, has already started way before flash 11 (check out unity: http://unity3d.com/gallery/live-demos/index.html#bedroom).
 
I also have a gripe with the word "again" in the title, and the way it has been positioned. Flash didn't revolutionise anything the "first" time round. One can only assume MR.B either has a personal investment with Adobe (employee?) or is a crazed fanatic of Flash and all the pain brought with it :p
 
Flash is good for some things and html/html5 will be good for others. Bearing in mind that the install base for flash is huge and is far more than those using the most up to date browsers, I cant see flash disappearing anywhere anytime soon.
 
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