Focus ST or Civic Type-R

Reality Bites · 23 Jan 2006 at 12:40

Difficult one for me.....

Have had my heart set on the Focus since having a test drive early this month.....i love that car. Problem is i'm not going to spend £17500 only to lose £5000 of it in the first year.

I was going to get me a runabout for 6-10 months while the prices come down a bit on the ST's.

Anyway....i'm out looking for said runabout yesterday and pass by the local honda garage. Had a quick look round the Civic Type-R as it had been suggested as an alternative to the focus.

I took it for a drive. Initially i thought it was loud, but once it warmed up sounded quiet nice. Gave it a good 'drive' as instructed by the guy from honda.

My initial thoughts were that the handling at higher speeds was slightly better but the suspension was stiffer and hence bumpier at slower speeds. I also thought that i'd get bored of the engine screaming as you push it to get to the power at the top end.

I left it to continue with my original plan of a runabout until the ST was affordable.

I've now looked at autotrader this morning and found some reasonable deals on civics

.

seems £13.5k will get me an 05 plate with 4-6000 miles on the clock.

what to do.....

any comments on a comparison? anyone else driven both?

Think i'm going to have another go in the civic this weekend....

Reality Bites · 23 Jan 2006 at 12:48

hilly said:
I've driven both, the Civic is a lot more raw than the ST. The ST is the better, quicker, better handling and more toys car.

Though i wouldn't get the ST1, ST2 as a bare minimum, though *** ST3 is the best out of the 3

should have said......want the ST2, leather does nothing for me.

Reality Bites · 23 Jan 2006 at 13:00

Stonedofmoo said:
According to a guy I know who works for Ford, it's predicted the ST2 will hold it's value the best of the models and you will lose the least on that one.

I'd get the Focus. You see CTR's everywhere nowadays. Lovely car, but it would be the old model now considering the replacement is around the corner.

I've heard people have been going with the ST2 instead of the 3 as the leather seats make the rear into 2 seats rather than getting 3 people in comfy.

Thing is i wouldn't be able to afford the ST just yet.....the civic would be a stop gap.

Reality Bites · 23 Jan 2006 at 14:25

Oakesy2001uk said:
CTR's are everywhere, that is reason enough for me not to want one. also a new one is out soon so value will drop. focus is only just out so wont be a problem. Also better daily driver in my opinion as there is power everywhere. plenty or torque. Focus for me mate. get yourself anything out of the trader that looks like you can make a few hundred quid on while you wait. few months you will see decent prices. and it should hold its value well.

oh and the focus looks better inside and out and the gearstick is in the right place! (guess what car I'm saving for)

Now this is the sensible option that i SHOULD stick to. just struggling to find a cheap runabout for 6-8 months till the prices come down. I want the ST now but cant afford the new price tag.

I guess i was hoping the CTR wouldn't lose me much money in a year so i could trade it in for the ST later in the year.

Reality Bites · 23 Jan 2006 at 15:59

guess the main worry is how much money i'll lose on the CTR in a year (won't be any more).

i want to be able to afford the ST

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 09:25

Nickg said:
buy a 10k civic and it will only lose a few k, certainly not as much as a 17k and save the rest in a high interest to help recover the depreciation

this is what i'm going to do. I was thinking last night.....you only live once!

Going to look at a CTR for around the £13k mark (so will still have warranty when i come to sell again later in the year). Then i'll be able to swap the CTR for my goal, the ST2.

Hopefully the whole thing will only see me lose a couple of grand.

good plan?

As for dealer service.....i think everyone is different? I've had my A3 into 3 different dealers for servicing over the last 3 years and they've all been different levels of service. one was utter carp yet one was amazing......welcomed me into the place with a coffee and knew who i was before i'd said a word.

little things and all that!

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 09:37

Netphreak said:
Personnally I'd spend the extra and get a Golf GTI at least your not going to run the risk of high depreciation.
Or if you fancy something abit different try a Mazda RX-8 can be got for <£20K, rear wheel drive lots of power revs to 9K and personnally sounds even nicer than a Civic Type-R.

the point is, i havent got the £17k i need for the Focus i really want. how am i going to get £20k for a RX-8?

The golf would be the same?

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 09:37

James_N said:
this is true, hence the reasoning behind me thinking of selling it before it loses more of its value I kinda bought the car at the wrong time looking back now

are they really going to drop that much?

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 09:52

Morba said:
who has told you that it will lose £5k in one year?
are you planning on selling after 1 year? if so then buying new is a crazy idea regardless of the car.

ford dealership told me i would lose 5-6k in the first year. too much of a risk seeing as it's a new car.

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 10:35

siloleth said:
Yeah but how long do you intend keeping the car for ?

the focus i'd probably keep for a couple of years.....not sure.

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 15:42

Morba said:
i really cannot see them selling for £11k come december next year.
You lose money on any new car, thats why people buy pre reg, saves paying all that vat!

dealer i know said that they have it down on their books to be worth that after a year.

I would pay £13 - £14k for one. Once the initial lump is off.

how does the pre reg work?

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 15:43

[TW]Fox said:
You are going to lose a pile with any brand new car though?

i know that....meant it in the terms that it's only just been released so no one knows how much of a drop it will be.

With the CTR a new one would lose £2-£3k (going new for £15550) where no one knows what the focus ST will do

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 16:16

eidolon said:
I thought they were more than that? When I bought mine they were £17,995 (with air con and metallic paint).

If you want to be the first person sat in it, they may cost you that. drove one the other day which was a premium version in grey. wanted £15500 for it.

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 16:20

Firestar_3x said:
Dealer buys a car when sales are low and it gets registered to the dealership so they are the first owner often they are not used and then put up for sale the next month, the dealer takes the first hit come sales time since its not a new car and then only disadvantage to you is your the second owner on the books not the first.

from what i've heard, sales aren't low. order books are quiet good on them.

i'm waiting to hear how much a local dealer wants for an ex dem ST2 in march.

Reality Bites · 24 Jan 2006 at 16:57

Morba said:
id be careful about buyin an ex dem from a standard dealer.
its likely to of been ranted from cold with some harsh braking and quick accelation bursts.
this can be a good thing sometimes apparently, but still something worth checking over.

what warranties are for?

but i know what you mean......

Reality Bites · 25 Jan 2006 at 09:41

[TW]Fox said:
The new one will plummet in value when its replacement is released - its already the previous model Civic now, which will have a big effect on residuals.

new type r not due till late 2006, early 2007?

i only want the car for 8months or so.....

Reality Bites · 25 Jan 2006 at 10:40

eidolon said:
I'm not sure about that. Whenever I've test driven cars the dealer has started the car up, drove it for the first 5 mins and swapped drivers so it's already warmed up. I can't recall any of the dealers starting up a cold car and wheelspinning off the forecourt or similar.

that's exactly what the dealer did when i went for a drive. he took it up the road, warmed it a bit and then we swapped.

Reality Bites · 25 Jan 2006 at 13:36

gaz1234 said:
Civic with ease beat the focus hands down!

have you driven both?

Reality Bites · 25 Jan 2006 at 13:53

i'm going to get the ST in the long run. the CTR will just be a stop gap....

Reality Bites · 25 Jan 2006 at 14:04

gaz1234 said:
If it is the new ST then that but if the old ST then i'd go for the Civic!

if you read my OP you would see that i wanted the ST2. The old ST170 is just a focus with a faster engine IMO.

The new ST is a totally different level to the standard focus.

I will get the ST2 later in the year when the prices have come down a little, but in the mean time i'm going to get a civic for a few months as a stop gap.