Football referees and their invincibility

fez

fez

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Ok, this is something that I have thought was ridiculous for a good while now but I just read about the Ferguson incident and its made me somewhat annoyed. They are calling for a ban from the stadium and a hefty fine as punishment.

Why is it that referees can have apauling games and they are not able to be criticised about their performance. You can see on MOTD that a hell of a lot of managers hold their tongues when asked about the referee because they feel like they are unable to give their opinion without fear of a ban. They can say that another player dived or cheated and nothing will happen.

If a player performs poorly on the pitch then they may not play the next match and they will be criticised. referees are paid professionals and if they are not up to scratch why shouldnt they be told so.

Matches mean so much to every club that they will get annoyed if they feel that the cause of them losing the match was a poor referee.

Why are they special?
 
I still think the ref had every right to give that free kick at Stamford Bridge. Ferguson keeps using the ref as an excuse for not getting results this season, it's kinda cringeworthy

The last few years as an Arsenal fan have left me desensitised from bad referees, there have been so many tragic mistakes that I now expect it and realise they're human and that there will always be bad decisions until the technology is upgraded.

Edit - I don't think it's a football managers place to question/insult/abuse/critique a ref's performance and blame the ref for losing the game (as managers often do) in public. If they have problems they should be respectful, professional and mature and do it behind closed doors.
 
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I completely agree, refs should have to do post match interviews as well.
The point is that referees are supposed to use their discretion, and the players and managers are supposed to respect the referees decision regardless. There are few 'black and white' situations in a game of football, where would be the fun if everything followed a strict code, if every time a shirt got tugged, or a nudge in the back etc a free kick was given, players bending the rules and hoping to get away with it is part and parcel of the game, if you take away the referees discretion to 'let things go' then you will end up with them applying the absolute letter of the law to every situation and it would, IMO, make the matches pretty awful as a spectacle.

That said, I wouldn't mind if they adopted the same approach they have in rugby and mike them up in the game too and let it be broadcast - let the public know what immature, foul-mouthed scrotes most footballers are and what referees have to deal with during the course of a match :p
 
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The standard of refereeing in this country is poor.

They often don't allow the linesmen to give anything other then balls out of play / throwins. They work as individuals not teams, we don't need tech we just need better ref's.

They don't enforce the rules, and are far too inconsistant in their decisions. They need to be better trained.

I know Fergie rants a lot, but it's like the boy who cried wolf, when ref's do make a mistake and he comments it's just "Fergie ranting again".
 
If a player performs poorly on the pitch then they may not play the next match and they will be criticised. referees are paid professionals and if they are not up to scratch why shouldnt they be told so.

Refs do get demoted if they have a very bad game.
Technology is the answer, not widespread critisim of refs.
 
Technology is not the answer as with nearly every incident you rarely get a whole panel of people agreeing rgeardless of how many different angles of replays they've seen. Even with extra people behind the goal glaring errors are made.
 
That said, I wouldn't mind if they adopted the same approach they have in rugby and mike them up in the game too and let it be broadcast - let the public know what immature, foul-mouthed scrotes most footballers are and what referees have to deal with during the course of a match :p

They've already tried that, was an Arsenal game, only thing was, nobody told the Arsenal players and it resulted in a lot of bad language and was subsequently never repeated. :D

I'm not exactly sure on the match or when it was, but remember seeing it in a documentary.
 
Why should lower league clubs have to put up with **** refs?

Maybe because mickey mouse clubs like SWFC deserve no better than **** refs?

How about you go ref a game and see how it works out?

Technology is not the answer as with nearly every incident you rarely get a whole panel of people agreeing rgeardless of how many different angles of replays they've seen. Even with extra people behind the goal glaring errors are made.

Every? Very few incidents divide opinion among unbiased viewers. It would greatly help with offside decisions as it is physical IMPOSSIBLE to be any way certain on a tight call without technology.
 
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Referees' performance get's analysed after every game and they get demoted rapidly if they have bad performances. If they make a mistake then they will be in the papers for it. It's a tough job as it is and you think they should be criticised more?
 
You can't have rugby's technology used in the same way as football unless it's to be used retrospectively, i.e. to dish out cards ro ban players for fouls.

During the game it can't be done as footballs too fluid, cricket, rugby, American sports etc. are all stop/start.
 
Technology is the answer, not widespread critisim of refs.

No technology is not the answer.

A higher standard and consistancy of ref's is the answer, the FA have let standards slip in English football.

Train them better, maybe make them work in teams of officals, have the linesman play a bigger role.

Football is an art, not a science.

"micky mouse clubs like Sheffield Wednesday?"

Who do you support?
 
From watching Champions League and Europa the standard is just the same in every other country, the haves literally a split second to see something happen and the only way you are going to a fair game is introduce video replays.
 
You can't have rugby's technology used in the same way as football unless it's to be used retrospectively, i.e. to dish out cards ro ban players for fouls.

During the game it can't be done as footballs too fluid, cricket, rugby, American sports etc. are all stop/start.

Rugby is not stop start, its just the same as football, how long does it take for a corner or a goal kick to be sorted and taken add in free kicks near the area and you are about the same time frame, adding 30 seconds to a decisions is worth it considering what happens with diving.
 
You can't have rugby's technology used in the same way as football unless it's to be used retrospectively, i.e. to dish out cards ro ban players for fouls.

During the game it can't be done as footballs too fluid, cricket, rugby, American sports etc. are all stop/start.

Twaddle, American football DOESN'T make heavy use of technology, frankly time between most plays isn't anything worse than the time between freekicks being given and taken in general. Its simple, but coaches get 2 red flags they can throw on the field if they want a decision questioned, the ref gets ONLY 30 seconds to look at a replay from multiple angles. If he can't see anything in 30 seconds to change his mind, decision stands, if he see's something that changes his mind in 2 seconds, or 30 seconds, he'll do so and take whatever the best action is. Its quick, its simple, its incredibly limited so barely used.

The most important thing is it IMPROVED the decision making of the ref's massively so less bad calls were made, as would happen with football if it was introduced. THe mere introduction of the technology would mean, at most 2-3 mins of stoppages for massive decisions, hardly a killer, but by being used most cheating would simply stop. Red flag to see a shirt tug at a corner, penalty, most players within weeks would stop shirt pulling, diving would be non existant as you'd get caught every single time. Most cheating would simply dissappear within weeks as you won't get away with it. Meaning a few weeks of numerous penalties and hilariously entertaining games, followed by decades of almost no cheating at all and massively improved refereeing in games. But without cheating most of the time, there would be a huge reduction in the need for video replays, meaning no delays. THeres still the odd american footie game with several red flags thrown, but theres games with none, or just 1/2 used, meaning a whole 1-2 mins increased time. But compare that to minutes of complaining, fighting, decision making, carding, carding for mouthing off about a decision and you'd probably waste less time overall. But after it settles down, with the constant threat of video replays, players would continue to tow the line and not cheat. We'd get back to football without the shirt pulling, diving and anything else dodgey that goes on.

Referee's can not see every incident "live", its not possible, even with 30 referee's you won't get the correct calls, video replay gives you a chance to see the incident again, you can't beat that, there is no better way, there won't ever be a better way.

AS for punishing ref's, i'm not for it, as for complaining, I don't see it as a problem, people should be allowed to say what they think, its ridiculous to punish people for complaining about poor decisions. But ultimately a single ref can not get everything right, no ones in the wrong here except the people refusing to introduce better methods.

Every ref makes multiple bad calls in every game, its been getting worse if you ask me, partially due to people getting better at cheating. But you drop every ref in the prem league, who the hell is going to officiate the next games exactly?

There are no better ref's to take over, if there was a magic pool of ultra ref's around the place we could bring in, they'd still make constant mistakes. As far as I know, every sport that uses ref's and no video replay, has mistakes made, basically all of them, every single sport thats introduced video replay has improved massively with few poor decisions being made.
 
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Nah this isnt about any particular game, as mentioned, the free kick that cost us a goal against chelsea was fine. Could have gone either way and it went theirs. Thats life. What im talking about is the fact that referees seem to be able to perform poorly and do not have to answer to anyone publicly.

Its a tough job but if they came out and said that I gave this decision because of that etc and justified it then we would be a lot happier. There are plenty of refs that never seem to have any issue and then there are some that seem to repeatedly hit the headlines. That cant be coincidence.

I realise that they have reviews after every match but I have never seen a ref get demoted after a really poor game.

They get paid good money and it is a profession, managers comment on tackles the other teams players have commited, if a player is sent off then they cant do anything about it. Say a player makes a genuinely mis-timed challenge and is sent off, is that not a mistake that should be overlooked after a game like a referees performance.

If a ref is not good enough he should be replaced, simple as.

Ps. Bring back colina, no one messed with that man.
 
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Rugby is not stop start, its just the same as football, how long does it take for a corner or a goal kick to be sorted and taken add in free kicks near the area and you are about the same time frame, adding 30 seconds to a decisions is worth it considering what happens with diving.

Yes, but these are things for when play has already stopped.

What about when it's undecided as to whether it should stop or not?

Say for example football team A thinks they've scored and the ball's crossed the line. Football team B now though, has the ball and is about to break with a very heavy advantage.

What should happen if the officials don't signal team A has scored? If team A has indeed scored, then yes it's easy to say that play should have been stopped. If however they haven't, and Team B is about to break, Team B loses an advantage which they by right should have had.

Extrapolating that, what if Team A is allowed to stop play even though a few members of their own side have seen that they didn't in fact score, but they stopped play anyway because with Team B breaking they'd be seriously disadvantaged.


Terrific, thanks for masturbating an essay longer and worse than what I did in year 9 on Shakespeare. I didn't say that American Football used that much technology. I said it was more stop start than "our" football and allays itself to more intervention.

You've also missed what I was trying to say. But I guess that doesn't matter.

And most things going on in a game can be seen in a replay. Ban people retrospectively, and actually do this. Then managers will start thinking about what their players are upto and the time that they spend out. No Arsenal fans had complaints that Eduardo was to be banned, if it set precedent (which off topic it didn't).

Yes, it's easy to see that less bad calls would be made. But can you not also see by what your saying (and the examples you're giving) that it's just as easy to manipulate? I don't watch that much American football. But at 1-0 down with the title run in at hand, can you trust a football manager to not abuse the system by being able to throw a flag onto the field?
 
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