Forcing 3870x2 to same 3d and low power 3d clocks?

[drunkenmaster]

How are people doing this mostly, bios flash to a hacked bios, or through rivatuner, not used rivatuner before to be honest and not sure if people are saying theres an easy option that i just can't find as its not recognising my version, or if you have to do a whole big profile thing which i haven't worked out how to do yet.

Any help appreciated, it seems to be dropping to the low power 3d clocks, or 2dclocks, not sure, while in game which really is a pain in the behind, doesn't do it for all games or doesn't seem to obviously. the rivatuner hardware monitoring is showing the speed popping up and down for sure. i dropped in the hacked rivatuner config from the vr-zone.com article on overclocking the 3870x2 , which let it recognise it so i can monitor hardware and have fan options now, but the fan options don't work, no difference setting to 20% or 100%.

Diff hacked config file for it anywhere to allow fan control?

I have the overclocked MSI version of the 3870x2.

 

[fornowagain]

If you want the same low power 3D and 3D clocks you'll have to flash it. Personally I never noticed any 2d drop outs.

http://www.computerbase.de/downloads/treiber/grafikkarten/ati/computerbase_ati_bios-editor/

Extract the two bios' from a dos boot.

atiflash -s 0 3870x2.rom
atiflash -s 1 13870x2.rom

Edit them and flash back.

atiflash -p 0 3870x2.rom
atiflash -p 1 13870x2.rom

(keep originals safe, you may want to write a blind flash batch file just in case)

As for Rivatuner, just find RV670 in Rivatuner.cfg and make sure 950Fh is written after it.

------------

I'm still a little suspicious of the CCC overdrive clock settings (Cats 8.2 Vista64, didn't try XP). I didn't see the fps increase I was expecting (Crysis mainly) after setting the clocks. You may want to get the latest version of Everest and record a few GPU clock logs. I found the best way of clocking it was the AMD GPU tool, which overrides all the clocks. Or flash the bios to the desired clocks, for me flashing the low power higher disabled the Overdive and caused micro-stutters in Unreal 3 engine games. So I settled on the AMD tool.

Use AMD GPU Clock Tool and newer toollib.dll file. Replace the toollib.dll in the AMD GPU Clock Tool folder with the updated file.
http://www.nordichardware.com/skrivelser_img/516/AMDGPUClockTool_v0.7.zip
http://www.nordichardware.com/skrivelser_img/516/ToolLib.zip



I can't test it any further, sold it.

 

[drunkenmaster]

are people that have problems seeing the 3d low power clocks being set or the 2d clocks. checking various threads everyone seems to say something different, but then most people don't seem to know theres a low power 3d mode so i'm assuming that would be the issue.

Getting another issue, think its phenom of this board but, a couple of games are barely using cpu power in game, but when i alt-tab to windows to check the cpu usage goes up to expected, but it shows that seconds before cpu usage was barely going. grrr, a touch infuriating. i wonder where the blame lies exactly as not everyone seems to have the same problem. ati, some cores, or misapplied bios settings from certain manu's. i assume it was design to do low power 3d in situations where literally almost nothing is being done, basic games or, i dunno what, but it really should stay in full power mode in things like cod4, cnc3 and so on. very choppy performance.

EDIT:- i also kind of get that feeling that overclocking isn't giving very big boosts in large part as its rop/bandwidth limited as opposed to needing more raw power. cheers for the bios info though, think i really need to do it as opposed to want to, this mobo/cpu has been so dodgey of late flashing seems a touch more risky than normal.

 

[HeX]

It is the low power 3d clocks that cause the problem, what causes it is powerplay kicking in when it isn't meant to.

When you are playing a game and it 'stutters' powerplay detects that the game has 'stopped' (even though it hasn't) and as such ramps down the clocks, making matters even worse...

Then it realises that you are actually in a 3d game and ramps them back up again, as such you can get pockets of chuggy then fast gameplay.

I had that problem in Crysis. I'd stand in one spot and be getting 50-60fps, i'd take a single step forward and my fps would plummet to around 20-30fps, until I moved again and powerplay figured out I was actually in a 3d game.

I did the BIOS flash, set low power to same as full 3d and it fixed the fps drops straight away.

If you don't want to flash your card i'd suggest waiting for the 8.3 drivers this month as there are rumours abound that they will include an option to disable powerplay... if they don't then your only option is to flash the card.


As for the overclock, you will be CPU limited, these X2's scale very very well, they keep ramping up their performance until you reach about 4.5Ghz on a Quad before they top out.

As you are on a Phenom, i'm going to assume you arn't clocked very high, and as Phenoms are a little slower than Core2Quads that will be the limiting factor of your X2, so there won't be much point in clocking the card.

Mine is CPU limited at 3.4Ghz on my Quad.

 

[drunkenmaster]

it will be cpu limited at 1280x1024, and in 3dmark and the like, but it isn't at 1920x1200 with max quality settings. the only app that shows any increase at all between 3/3.5Ghz and up to 4.5Ghz is 3dmark. who cares about it tbh, i certainly don't. Just waiting on mobo rma then i'm dropping it back in my Q6600 system.

the low power clocks are a pain, in cod4 and a couple others its not just dropping for a couple seconds at a time to low power clocks, it can be for a split second, or 10 seconds, 20, maybe even a minute at a time, ridiculous at the mo.

8.2's didn't come out that early in feb did they, thought it was roughly middle of feb which probably means at least a week or two, even 3 before we get the 8.3's.

i do use 3dmark to check a system's working well. even in 3dmark if you run it at 1920x1200 its not cpu limited anymore and overclocking really did very very little in terms of scaling score, even 1920x1200 and high aa/af settings. then again the MSI is default at 850 core so a touch higher and closer to that limit.

anyway, yay gigabyte to take over a month to rma my mobo, they don't even sell the higher end P35 boards anymore, no where in the uk (usual places including OCUK) have the Dq6/ds5 in stock. gigabyte probably won't replace it and will send out a spanking new X38, which the store could just have sent me a month ago anyway , grrrr.

 

[HeX]

it will be cpu limited at 1280x1024, and in 3dmark and the like, but it isn't at 1920x1200 with max quality settings. the only app that shows any increase at all between 3/3.5Ghz and up to 4.5Ghz is 3dmark. who cares about it tbh, i certainly don't. Just waiting on mobo rma then i'm dropping it back in my Q6600 system.

the low power clocks are a pain, in cod4 and a couple others its not just dropping for a couple seconds at a time to low power clocks, it can be for a split second, or 10 seconds, 20, maybe even a minute at a time, ridiculous at the mo.

8.2's didn't come out that early in feb did they, thought it was roughly middle of feb which probably means at least a week or two, even 3 before we get the 8.3's.

Not just 3dmark, I am CPU limited in Crysis.

At 3.4Ghz I get 52fps, at 3.5 I get 53fps, at 3.6 I get 54fps, with a 4Ghz+ clock you can get Crysis into the 60fps+

But as you say depends on the res you play, at 1920 you prolly won't be CPU limited.

Yeah the powerplay stuff is a real pain in the posterior, don't know why they havn't fixed it yet as it was already a problem with the 3870XT's.

As for the 8.3's they are rumoured to be comming out on the 10th after CeBit, but we'll have to wait and see I suppose.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Crap, not sure how to flash it, following this method basically

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2782722&postcount=12

but both the cores when checking info under dos show as being 64kb, where when i downloaded the bios's from windows through gpu-z one came up as 64kb and the other as 44 as it was supposed to.

Not sure if i should just make sure i flash the 44kb one to the slave bios and the 64kb to the master as it shows which is which in dos with atiflash. however i'm not quite sure.

EDIT:- just went back through and grabbed the bios's through dos and got the same sizes and the the slave came up as smaller so guess i'll go ahead and flash the smaller file to the slave bios and pray. Someone else mentioned on xtremesys that they had a similar issue and said it flashed fine but not sure if he did something different before flashing the bios's.

 

[fornowagain]

Here's both bios files for reference (Powercolor or connect3d, found they were the same bios)

http://www.mediafire.com/?nrnszt3t8b4

One is bigger than the other.

 

[silversurfer]

Does the 3850 have 2d clocks too ? I find it just stays on high power all the time unless I do it manually but then I used omega drivers not the official ones

 

[drunkenmaster]

think the whole 3000 series has 3d full power, 3d low power and 2d clocks with uvd aswell which i assume is high def playback stuff right?

Either way the problem seems to only really be a lot of games where despite being mid action and needing full juice it will drop to 3d low power speeds, which is basically 2d speeds.

Either way, i've flashed the bios's i got out of gpu-z as they matched in size the files i got through ati flash from dos. Fixed the 3d low power clocks to same as 3d high power and first game i tried was noticeably faster within the first 30 seconds playing, WAY WAY better. Better to the point the card seemed completely crap without the fix and as good as I hoped it might be with the fix. Serious oversight by ATi and even worse that they didn't add in a powerplay on/off option in any set of drivers since release, or a hotfix, anything.

 

[HeX]

think the whole 3000 series has 3d full power, 3d low power and 2d clocks with uvd aswell which i assume is high def playback stuff right?

Either way the problem seems to only really be a lot of games where despite being mid action and needing full juice it will drop to 3d low power speeds, which is basically 2d speeds.

Either way, i've flashed the bios's i got out of gpu-z as they matched in size the files i got through ati flash from dos. Fixed the 3d low power clocks to same as 3d high power and first game i tried was noticeably faster within the first 30 seconds playing, WAY WAY better. Better to the point the card seemed completely crap without the fix and as good as I hoped it might be with the fix. Serious oversight by ATi and even worse that they didn't add in a powerplay on/off option in any set of drivers since release, or a hotfix, anything.

Glad you got it sorted m8, it really is night and day before and after the flash aint it. Crysis and UT3 felt like different games!

BTW - I had the same thing with that ATIflash util telling me both bios's were 64k, I just ignored it as well and flashed the bios's I got out of GPU-Z and it worked fine

 

[drunkenmaster]

Thing is this problem isn't limited to ATi by any means. AMD and Intel have the issue to a lesser degree. The problem is everyones adding power saving stuff, but unfortunately even the best algorithms and software possible can't possibly account for every situation in which you might want either high or low load. Really the mistake AMD made with the 3000 series is you simply MUST have control over it to some degree, you have to be able to turn it off. To be honest there is probably a huge percentage of people buying 3850's and similar and running on a tiny resolution and don't ever mess with graphical settings and could do with a low power mode. But there are always going to be those of us playing max settings and we need the option to turn it off.

AMD really needed to add a powerplay on/off feature, actually with the 2nd or 3rd release after the 3870 non x2 was out as it was an issue then.

Now i just need my 2nd set of crucial rma'd to get back up to 4 gigs, and rebuild this comp with my old q6600 and new mobo as that finally got replaced. The phenom in all honesty seems more than powerful enough for gaming, the only issue is massive instability with this damn gigabyte board that loads of people seem to have issues with if its got a phenom in

 

[schumi84]

I am gonna give this a try when i get home today i reckon, see if there is any improvement, expecting there should be.

Once this has been done, has anyone got their 3DMark06 scores back to normal with the 8.3s or are they still running low?

 

[HeX]

Not tried 06 after flashing, i'll give it a go tonnight.

 

[drunkenmaster]

same not run, will do it in a minute but i've not got high cpu clocks or tested 8.3 before flash for 3dmark so we'll see what comes up. I think if i pushed the cpu to 2.6Ghz or so it got 13.5-14k 3dmark, suggests that crossfire was enabled, didn't check on the 3d load thing but you simply won't get higher than that without higher clocked cpu.

Cod4 is way better for me, would have to reinstall crysis to check but then again i last played that on a 2900xt with a q6600 at almost 4Ghz and when it was first released so that ain't gonna tell me diddly squat


hmmm, very weird. A lot of people seem to be saying the 8.3's are giving very low cpu scores, i'm fairly sure my cpu score is down quite a bit but my sm3 score is up a lot.

lol, was just looking in rivertuner monitoring and their were some semi long periods stuck at 2d speeds, but i just realised thats obviously the 2 cpu tests mid way through theres brief drops between 2d/3d at quite large intervals which i assume to be loading the tests, and then sustained 3d speed through the tests would account for higher framerate(from what i recall) and much higher sm2/3 scores. Not a clue why 8.3 is killing cpu score so much and seemingly only in 3dmark. driver using a heck of a lot more cpu power than before maybe?

 

[schumi84]

Hi there, have just flashed my card as per the instructions to set the high and low power clocks to the same stock speed.

After running the Crysis Benchmark at stock settings i am getting about 44FPS still, however i havent had time to play through the game or any other for that matter. Any ideas whether i should have noticed any more of a change in the benchmark?

 

[HeX]

Hi there, have just flashed my card as per the instructions to set the high and low power clocks to the same stock speed.

After running the Crysis Benchmark at stock settings i am getting about 44FPS still, however i havent had time to play through the game or any other for that matter. Any ideas whether i should have noticed any more of a change in the benchmark?

You won't notice any improvement in the benchmark, it is actual in game gameplay you will see the difference.

Without the flash you would have pockets of very low FPS followed by pockets of good FPS. Now you should have pretty constant framerates with smoth transitions. Overall the game should play and feel smoother.

Same in CoD4 and UT3. Those 3 games seem to be the hardest hit by the bug.

 

[fornowagain]

Just noticed this on another forum. No idea if it works.

Fix for PowerPlay 3870

It is easy to do.

For anyone with ATI cards here is how to properly set your card up to not use powerplay which causes stuttering and low performance.

go to the directory,
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Application Data\ATI\ACE

Keep that directory open.
start up catalyst control center
hit the Overdrive tab
hit the paddle lock image to enable the overdrive settings
hit the profiles tab at top of page
select profiles manager from drop down list
name a profile in blank box (Custom Power is my chosen name)
under "this profile includes" section at bottom of page select the dot for "the following settings". In the tree make sure only ATI Overdrive checkbox is selected.
hit the save button
hit the Activate and close button at bottom of page

now go to your open directory
C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator\Local Settings\Application Data\ATI\ACE
You should see 5 new files in there in total.
One file is the same as you named your custom profile, right click it and select edit (my file is called Custom Power.xml)

The file will open in notepad where you can now change settings to nullify powerplay
Here are my new settings for example, I increased the core speed and voltage and applied a slight overclock to the 3dmodes in gpu and memory. I also increased the fan % to 100% from 41%.

Make your changes, close and save changes to the file. Rt click the file choose properties and change the file to read only. You are done.

<Profile>
<Caste name="Graphics">
<Groups>
<Group name="Overdrive5">
<Feature name="CoreClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="77600" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="80000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="80000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="112600" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="120000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="120000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="1300" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="1300" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="1300" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryVoltageTarget_0">
<Property name="Want_0" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedProtocol_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedProtocolProperty" value="Percent" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_0">
<Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedRPMTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_0">
<Property name="Want" value="100" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreClockTarget_1">
<Property name="Want_0" value="77600" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="80000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="80000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryClockTarget_1">
<Property name="Want_0" value="112600" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="120000" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="120000" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="CoreVoltageTarget_1">
<Property name="Want_0" value="1300" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="1300" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="1300" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="MemoryVoltageTarget_1">
<Property name="Want_0" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_1" value="0" />
<Property name="Want_2" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedProtocol_1">
<Property name="FanSpeedProtocolProperty" value="Percent" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedAlgorithm_1">
<Property name="FanSpeedAlgorithm" value="Automatic" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedRPMTarget_1">
<Property name="Want" value="0" />
</Feature>
<Feature name="FanSpeedPercentTarget_1">
<Property name="Want" value="100" />
</Feature>
</Group>
</Groups>
<Adapter name="PCI_VEN_1002&amp;DEV_9501&amp;SUBSYS_E620174B&amp;REV_00_4&amp;160 20E22&amp;0&amp;0008A">
<Aspect name="Overdrive5" />
</Adapter>
</Caste>
</Profile>


Here is a screenshot of my new readouts idle at desktop. You will notice the 776mhz 1126mhz. Before it used to be 300mhz 1126mhz. Also the overclock sliders indicate 800mhz and 1200mhz which is the overclock settings I set when 3d mode kicks in.

Anyone with any ATI cards this should be the method to ****can Powerplay, don't resort to hacked BIOS's or sending your card back or switching brand names (NVidia has a version of powerplay too but easier to manipulate)

If you restart your computer, just make sure to open catalyst and ensure that your profile is activated. Simple once done.

This method is failsafe (equal to using Overdrive to overclock plus get rid of the powerplay stage). When you install there is a default profile which is read directly from BIOS so if you do not create a profile only the BIOS settings from the card are used. Also this is used if you reboot and do not activate your profile. Making a profile allows you to change the default BIOS settings that the cards use from windows. It was created by ATI, and was available to everyone for use from day one.
If you follow the instructions the way I wrote them out, you can change any settings in catalyst as often as you want except on the Overdrive page. The key is creating your profile with only the Overdrive checkmarked off.