Ford - Turbo Dieseles - Failing when not driven fast enough

Sin_Chase · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:15

Posting on behalf of someone else just to get some insight/opinion on this problem.

Ford S-Max 2007 Model, Turbo Diesel with ~24,000 miles. Bought privately but in warranty. Shortly after buying it intermittent CEL lights and power issues, was diagnosed as a turbo issue and repaired under warranty at the Ford Dealership.

Some months later, the same thing occurs again, some £100s are spent rectifying the problem. Now the problem has resurfaced with less than 1,000 miles on the repair. Car goes back to dealership and they refuse to fix the problem that was supposedly already resolved, both in warranty and out.

In discussion with Ford UK they say that the car must be run at between 50-60 mph for at least 15 minutes, words to this effect are apparently printed in the vehicle manual. We live in Jersey, the speed limit is 40MPH. Doing such speeds would be breaking the law, nevermind for an extended period of time like 15 minutes.

Ford refuse to make good but this also opens up a whole host of questions.

- Why are Ford selling vehicles not fit for purpose in Jersey (Channel Islands as whole) IE - Selling diesel powered cars that, as a requirement, must be run at over 50MPH in a region where 40MPH is the fastest you can go

- Why does NOBODY at Ford make mention to this requirement and make clear to the buyer than not following this requirement will land you with a dead turbo that Ford will not warrant

- Why did Ford replace/repair the Turbo under warranty knowing about this problem but said nothing? Repairing it knowing that it would occur again?

Ford seem quite happy to sell diesel powered cars which have this inherent fault that, supposedly, Ford do know about

Suffice to say this will be taken to local media and it appears that it's not just Ford. Other brands have had similar issues with Turbo diesels, some of which have an entirely different turbo diesel setup now to fix the issue. Why was no recall issue or at least communication made to Channel islands owners when this fault was discovered?

Looking for opinions or insight anyone in the trade (Or not) might have as this is clearly a massive problem.

Edit - Excuse the 'diesels' spelling fail in topic subject!

SB118 · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:17

The joys of modern diesels and there DPF cleaning cycles.

EddScott · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:20

You can always have the DPF removed - or have it cut open, gutted and re-welded and then re-fitted. A quick map to tell the engine to ignore the DPF and job done and MOT friendly.

jon.bda · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:28

Vauxhall are just as bad...

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:30

The turbo isn't failing due to the drive cycle. That said why would anyone buy diesels on the CI?

Jokester · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:36

Yeah turbo and DPF are unrelated aren't they?

Sin_Chase · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:36

Jonnycoupe said:
That said why would anyone buy diesels on the CI?

Besides the point really, just going off what Ford have blamed - not doing over 50mph they say!

DMG · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:40

Sin_Chase said:
Besides the point really, just going off what Ford have blamed - not doing over 50mph they say!

Fair question to ask I think. I just assumed its because they wanted an MPV and had to choose a diesel due to a lack of petrol engined models.

jon.bda · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:43

Maybe on Jersey they do a regen of the DPF as part of a service given the speed restrictions?

[TW]Fox · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:43

Why does anyone on Jersey buy a diesel? The only thing more daft on Jersey than a diesel is a VTEC Honda

Sin_Chase · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:54

Here we go, irrelevant questions and enquiry. Purchase decisions for anyone who owns a diesel in the CI can be a lovely discussion you bewildered little flowers can make a new thread for. Such questions (and there answers) add NOTHING to the problem at hand.

Otherwise I am interested in opinion on Fords retort.

Ravster · 20 Aug 2012 at 20:59

OP this is absurd, I would contact the media as you plan too and on top of that inform Ford corporate of your intention to do so in writing. That way if they decide to do nothing and follow any form of legal recourse, you (and the media outlet) are always covered in showing evidence that you indeed warned Ford and despite this, they did nothing to resolve the issue.

Kenai · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:04

Sounds like they are pointing towards advice that is aimed at the DPF and it's required regen cycles to absolve themselves of blame for the turbocharger going pop.

I wasn't aware that a non regened DPF could damage a turbo, it's liable to put the car into limp mode at worst I thought.

I'd be asking for an explanation how this could supposedly affect the turbo rather than just the DPF first and foremost.

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:06

You can't even describe which components have failed... Therefore I'm out.

Diesel on CI... Lol

Jonnycoupe · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:07

Kenai said:
Sounds like they are pointing towards advice that is aimed at the DPF and it's required regen cycles to absolve themselves of blame for the turbocharger going pop.

I wasn't aware that a non regened DPF could damage a turbo, it's liable to put the car into limp mode at worst I thought.

I'd be asking for an explanation how this could supposedly affect the turbo rather than just the DPF first and foremost.

Excessive pressure will drive gas pressure and temps up, not good for the thermal management of the sensitive parts on the turbo and may be responsible for repeated failure if the DPF wasn't replaces.

Firestar_3x · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:17

Sin_Chase said:
Here we go, irrelevant questions and enquiry. Purchase decisions for anyone who owns a diesel in the CI can be a lovely discussion you bewildered little flowers can make a new thread for. Such questions (and there answers) add NOTHING to the problem at hand.

Otherwise I am interested in opinion on Fords retort.

Ford will tell you to do one, it's not fords fault, it's not the dealers responsibility to check the owner is purchasing the correct car, for all they know the owner planned to drive it in the mainland.

Seems to be the case of owner buying the wrong car, oh let's blame ford.

Kenai · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:20

Jonnycoupe said:
Excessive pressure will drive gas pressure and temps up, not good for the thermal management of the sensitive parts on the turbo and may be responsible for repeated failure if the DPF wasn't replaces.

Within 1000 miles? Surely not?

malfunkshun · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:21

I believe that this very thing was on the telly a couple of months ago?

SB118 · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:22

I think you're supposed to give them a thrash every 10-14 days to clear out the DFP, that's why they make kak school run cars too.

[TW]Fox · 20 Aug 2012 at 21:26

Sin_Chase said:
you bewildered little flowers can make a new thread for.

Well as you are so lovely I've decided to give you an opinion.

Sin_Chase said:
Bought privately

Ford refuse to make good

Ford and the vehicle owner have no relationship and no contract under SOGA. Why would they 'make good'? They didn't buy a car from Ford. Any 'making good' is purely a goodwill thing and nothing more.

- Why are Ford selling vehicles

They didn't sell your friend a vehicle.

not fit for purpose in Jersey (Channel Islands as whole) IE - Selling diesel powered cars that, as a requirement, must be run at over 50MPH in a region where 40MPH is the fastest you can go

Presumably some people do leave Jersey with cars. Otherwise they wouldn't be buying ridiculously inappropriate cars.

- Why does NOBODY at Ford make mention to this requirement and make clear to the buyer than not following this requirement will land you with a dead turbo that Ford will not warrant

Who was Ford supposed to mention this requirement to? Should a representative from Ford have popped round to help out with the private transaction under which this car was obtained?

- Why did Ford replace/repair the Turbo under warranty knowing about this problem but said nothing?

Well basically the turbo broke. The car had a warranty, so the turbo got fixed.

Repairing it knowing that it would occur again?

The option being what? Not repairing it? Even though a warranty covering the failure was in force?

Ford seem quite happy to sell diesel powered cars

Ford sold your friend nothing.

Why was no recall issue or at least communication made to Channel islands owners when this fault was discovered?

Looking for opinions or insight anyone in the trade (Or not) might have as this is clearly a massive problem.

The main point is that DPF issues - common on low mileage diesels bought by people who didn't think research or rational thought wsa worth bothering with on a £17,000 purchase - and turbocharger issues are seperate. It is correct that a DPF require sustained driving at higher speed to regen. It is not correct that not doing this will blow turbos up.

This is why the Turbo was:

a) Fixed initially under warranty
b) Now the problem of the owner of the privately purchased car they chose not to extend the warranty on.