Foreign Player Limit?

Is the Premier League not the highest percentage of non national players in the league?

I'm sure I've worded that awfully and people won't understand :(

I know what you meant. Taking Arsenal as an example, they played maybe 2 English players in the league all season? :rolleyes: ;)
 
Englands problem is that teams would rather look abroad for players then invest in their youth.

More teams that invest in better youth training, the more decent English players we will produce.
 
Is the Premier League not the highest percentage of non national players in the league?

Almost certainly out of the big leagues. Especially if you count Scottish and Welsh players as foreign.

Of course, there's nothing to stop our young players from going abroad to learn their trade too. I think there's actually a lot of young players in this country who would benefit from playing in one of the slower and more technical leagues in Europe first.
 
Almost certainly out of the big leagues. Especially if you count Scottish and Welsh players as foreign.

Of course, there's nothing to stop our young players from going abroad to learn their trade too. I think there's actually a lot of young players in this country who would benefit from playing in one of the slower and more technical leagues in Europe first.

walcott would struggle in the scottish premier league. none of them would benefit from going abroad into weak leagues apart from maybe their morale, you get better by playing against the best.

although i do agree that certain players are better suited to different types of leagues. berbatov doesnt suit the english game at all, he should go to italy or spain, maybe even germany or france.
 
Yeah, he was rubbish at Spurs :/

he's too nonchalant. therefore suits slower leagues better. im not saying he's been terrible, he just hasnt shone to the best of his ability and would be better suited to a different type of league, although still a world class league not a weak one like the polish league.
 
walcott would struggle in the scottish premier league. none of them would benefit from going abroad into weak leagues apart from maybe their morale, you get better by playing against the best.

I'm specifically not talking about Scotland (English football but worse) or about Walcott (fantastic athlete but no technique).

I'd say that there's a massive benefit in playing in a weaker league if you're an up-and-coming player. The alternative is sitting in the reserves or on the bench of a top side. Surely you're going to learn a lot more playing football than sitting on your arse.

Going play in France, the Netherlands or Portugal will improve a young player's game. It'll also give them to oppotunity to taste regular Champions/Europa league football much earlier on in their career too.

Young players from other countries are willing to make the move abroad. Why not young English players?
 
When it first started you were allowed one foreign player and now it's madness.

FACT -
The last English team to field 11 homegrown players from the local area they lived in was Stoke City in 1947.

...

I'm trying to see the rational behind stating that "fact"...

As someone else pointed out, if foreign players were creating such a problem with our national team why aren't Spain experiencing the same thing? There are a lot of South Americans playing there.

Or how about the Dutch. Loads of home grown talent with excellent academies and not a huge influx of foreign players in their league yet they have never won the WC.
 
As a result of reading a SSN article, I did a little bit of research on this "home-grown quota". This is defined as:
www.premierleague.com said:
...one who, irrespective of his nationality or age, has been registered with any club affiliated to the Football Association or the Football Association of Wales for a period, continuous or not, of three entire seasons or 36 months prior to his 21st birthday (or the end of the Season during which he turns 21).‬‪
Doesn't this then just makes the whole purpose of this ruling pointless? Chief executive Richard Scudamore is quoted as saying, "We think it will give clubs an extra incentive to invest in youth. We think that one of the benefits will be that it will help the England team."

Taking my beloved Arsenal for example, here is the possible 25 with the 8 "home grown" players in bold:
  1. Manuel Almunia (ESP)
  2. Lukasz Fabianski (POL)
  3. Vito Mannone (ITA)
  4. Bacary Sagna (FRA)
  5. Thomas Vermaelen (BEL)
  6. Laurent Koscielny (FRA)
  7. Johan Djourou (SWI)
  8. Gael Clichy (FRA)
  9. Kieran Gibbs (ENG)
  10. Armand Traore (FRA)
  11. Abou Diaby (FRA)
  12. Cesc Fabregas (ESP)
  13. Tomas Rosicky (CZE)
  14. Samir Nasri (FRA)
  15. Denilson (BRA)
  16. Aaron Ramsey (WAL)
  17. Alex Song (CAM)
  18. Jack Wilshire (ENG)
  19. Andrey Arshavin (RUS)
  20. Emmanuel Eboue (IVC)
  21. Robin van Persie (NED)
  22. Carlos Vela (MEX)
  23. Theo Walcott (ENG)
  24. Marouane Chamakh (MOR)
  25. Nicklas Bendtner (DEN)
So we have 10/25 "home grown" players. But only 3 of them are English and 1 is Welsh. Now I don't know whether the powers that be are testing this rule for just this season, or whether it is a long-term plan (probably the latter). But what's to stop clubs from just "poaching" young foreign players and blooding them up here just to fulfill this stupid rule?

It is inevitable that they will gradually amend the rule so that "home grown" is defined as "of UK nationality". I can see the benefits of this -- it gets English (UK) players competing on a regular basis. But if this amendment were to take place, I just hope they keep the weighting of 8/25 (~1/3) consistent. Let's face it, there's a certain mentality of English players that is different to that found on the continent (without being too rude - they are not intelligentally found in abundance). And if this weighting were to be shifted out of proportion, I fear the quality of the League would suffer.

Another overlooked constraint to this ruling is the ambition restriction it places on players - and as a result their desire and hunger for the title. There's another incentive why Wenger selects talent from all around the world - 11 individuals all from different nations can compete collectively for a place on their respective national teams. For example the only direct competition Robin van Persie has in this league is Dirk Kuyt. They both made the World Cup squad but you can see incentive to work for that place. If every single player in the Premier League was of English nationality, then you are competing with, for example, 99 other strikers and there is (arguably) less ambition.

I originally dismissed this ruling as stupid (obviously, being an Arsenal fan :p). But I have a feeling this could work. We will probably be compensating the quality of the League for a few years. But together with proper investment in youth development (and by that I mean mental attitude and not just building fancy 4G pitches), we might just see a World Cup before the icecaps melt.

Nah, really who am I kidding. :D
 
But will they risk weakening the league for possibly strenghtening the national team in several years to come? Me thinks not.
 
Yes, because the FA are that self obsessed, they'd ruin the league to try to make the England national team better.

Spain weren't particularly good in the world cup, nor good to watch, neither were Brazil, Italy, France, Holland, etc, etc. There wasn't a single team that managed to be as entertaining as a single top 4 club in any of the top 6-7 leagues in the world, even though for instance, the Spanish team is ridiculously strong.

INternational football, by and large, is utter crap, its also sporadic, and pointless. A tournament, for a month, every two years which of which 90% is crap football, riddled with awful decisions that not being a league, massively effects the outcome.

Basically the league is infinately more entertaining, its better quality, theres a far higher chance for different teams to win it, and different outcomes. It could do with better refereeing, but at least half the awful decisions do even out with other awful decisions against the other team at some stage of the season.

THe league must generate more income in total, but I think Fifa/FA can make such huge money themselves, as the tournament is largely their baby, while Fifa don't make as much money out of the leagues as ticket sales go to the home club with a portion to the away club, transfer fee's are between clubs, winnings go to the club, etc, etc. With Euro/World cups Fifa essentially run and take all the money and give the host nations a huge cut, but get a humoungous amount of cash out of it.

Leave the league alone, I'd perfer for international football to completely die out, and all the leagues get stronger and end up with less weak teams in.
 
To be fair Klose is a handfull of goals of being Germany's highest ever goal international goal scorer .....

you are doing Klose a dis-service surely - isnt he incredibly close to be the WC top scorer of all time?

(Being German top scorer is great, even fantastic - but pales slightly when compared to scoring so consistantly at WCs imo :)

Our problems are down to the development of youth players and emphasising on the wrong qualities (power/size/pace instead of technical ability).

Spot on - and as you said bringing the best players over here will allow any (english) youth players that get to train with them even better (although of course training is no replacement for live games at least its a start)

Maybe there has to be something designed around under 20's only having a max 2 year contract if they arent in 1st team squads (at least in the squad you will get chances to play EPL games etc) - maybe we have to stop all top clubs hoarding english talent too long (if they arent good enough to compete with Internations in the first team.

Not being derogatory - but for instance instead of having a 3rd year in the Man Utd Under 18's/ Reserves - they actually get a chance to sign for West Ham or Newcastle (not on loan because I dont believe that really works most of the time)
 
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Another overlooked constraint to this ruling is the ambition restriction it places on players - and as a result their desire and hunger for the title. There's another incentive why Wenger selects talent from all around the world - 11 individuals all from different nations can compete collectively for a place on their respective national teams. For example the only direct competition Robin van Persie has in this league is Dirk Kuyt. They both made the World Cup squad but you can see incentive to work for that place. If every single player in the Premier League was of English nationality, then you are competing with, for example, 99 other strikers and there is (arguably) less ambition

I know what you are getting at (I think!) but I don't think it really works like that. All England strikers are competing to play for England, even if they aren't in the Premiership, that's what they aspire to. Or at least they want to fight for their place at their club, same as any other player.....

I think the point you are making is simply a byproduct of the fact that by placing an artificial restriction on what team clubs can field, you are damaging the standard fullstop. Instead of getting teams packed with internationals (simply because they are good enough, not because they think they have more chance of playing for their country) you end up with teams packed full of sub-standard players simply because of where they were born.

The 100th best English striker will be rubbish not because he feels he can't compete for the national team, but simply because he is the 100th best English striker.
 
People ALWAYS say how the influx of foreign players shouldn't matter, because if English kids are good enough then they'll get through... but there's a fundamental problem with contact hours.



So there's a choice for clubs at the moment, give the kids the right number of contact hours (or closer to the right number)... or just poach kids in their late teens from countries/clubs where they have received a good number of contact hours. Hopefully that makes sense.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jul/17/england-world-cup-watford

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Basically I think there should be a cap on foreign talent in our youth system/international transfers shouldn't really happen with kids (wait until they're eighteen).

You've missed the point COMPLETELY, getting rid of foreign players, with your argument WOULD NOT increase the amount of coaching English players got, which would mean English players would suck exactly as much as before, there would just be more, worse players in the league.

SO the best 30-40 English players, instead of playing weekly against better players, will be playing against worse players. I think you'll find it pretty hard to find anyone who thinks playing against worse players will make anyone a better player.


The whole point, from the information YOU'VE linked, is that if you increase training time, english players would be better, if English players would be better, firstly, thats the end of the argument, right there you've worked out how to make English players better, job done, nothing to do with foreign players at all. But secondly, the natural occurance, if English players got better, would be less clubs would bother getting as many foreign players in, because they've got free/youth players who cost a lot less and have been at the club since academy days.

The ONLY thing that information highlights is the lack of training in the uk for english players, and you've read something completely and utterly different into it because you wanted to.

The other simple fact is that, plenty of great English players are around, the management, tactics, idea's, and team selection was appauling. No one can possibly comment saying England can't improve till our youths are trained better, or that players like Lampard aren't amongst the best in the world, thats rubbish, our manager was inept, and we keep choosing the wrong managers, and the wrong squads. Half the squad wasn't good enough to be there, we have far better players who didn't get in the squad compared to half the people that went.

Watford have shown it can be done, every other country can do it. It costs a lot less to run a school for a few dozen kids, than to buy a single player for 5million, the only issue is, no ones really bothered till this point, because no one from high up in the FA has tried to organise anything. France has had Clairefontane for god knows how long now, I have a friend who ended up going to learn to be a coach there after school.

Backwards thinking here, its got smeg all to do with foreign limits or foreign players, the sooner the FA, and the fans in this country stop looking for easy scapegoats, the sooner the FA will do something about the real problem.
 
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