Forensic computing?

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Soldato
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I'm thinking about going back to uni and doing a degree in forensic computing, but if truth be told i'm not really that clued up on it. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge they could share? I'm particularly interested in job prospects and what kind of companies i might be able to work for upon completion.

Thanks!
 
If this is anything like the "Forensic Science" courses on offer, don't do it. Much of what you learn will be useless, and you'll be one of hundreds trying to chase down a handful of posts a year. The few companies engaging in this work seldom recruit, and the public sector outfits doing it pay badly (one police force I know has a top salary for this work of about £28k - and that's after a few years).

Take a general Computer Science course or something similar - any prospective employer will want that far more than the noddy course you are suggesting. Any specialist techniques will vary from company to company anyway, and they'd much prefer you to have a good general computing background. Once in they'd train you in the stuff they use.

There's far too many of these specialist courses, and pretty much without exception they are useless. A forensic MSc would be useful once the main course is finished though.


M
 
I completely agree with this, do a computer science degree first and then do an MSC or try and engineer your way into a role with computer forensics.

The forensics side of computing is a very, very tough area of work to get into, mainly because of the experience required and the extreme levels of scrutiny that a forensic examiner can often be put under.

It is a very competitive market so a general computing BSC would probably be worth more in the long run.

You can always enroll on some professional courses when you have graduated.
 
I can echo the comments of the above as well. A proper CS degree will be much more useful. Security in general is a very tough area to get into unless you are very good. Most good degrees will allow you to specialise in your final year a little and give you a chance to choose options which appeal more to you.

Some of the work I do at the moment involves the analysis of malware, analysis of comprimised machines and such. Even though my CS degree wasn't "that" helpful in learning this stuff it certainly helped me get the work and provided a much better understanding in general.

Actually a Computer Systems Engineering degree may well be more advantageous depending on what areas you are interested in.
 
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Having partaken in the MSc in Computer Forensics I reckon I could throw my two pence in :)

I had no previous IT qualifications or degree and went in straight at the deep end by doing this masters - having now come out the other end my feelings are thus:

You have to know what you want out of the masters before you do it (I know this sounds stupid but seriously!)

You need to know what job prospects there will be for you after completion of the masters.

Ok, so you have your MSc in computer forensics and want to know what to do next..... easy - get your ass into the police ASAP and join one of the hi tech crime units. Even if you dont want a career in the police you will find job opportunities a lot harder without any police experience behind you!

It took me 6 months of hard grafting to finally get into a hi tech crime unit and even then I had to start as a techie and not a full blown investigator! Salarywise within the police you are looking at anywhere between £20k and £30k depending upon which force you join.

You may of course feel that you want to start earning the big bucks and go straight into private - nowt wrong with that but unless you know you're stuff inside and out and backwards (which you wont until you have experience) you will find it hard to get into. Again, you may have to start in a techy role and be dubbed "an Imaging Munkeh" as that will be your bread and butter until you progress to investigator. Realistaically working in the private sector, salaries can vary from £25k to thru the roof (literally £100ks) depending of course on your position and experience.

I'm sorry to say this again but you REALLY should try and get some police employment on your CV - it really will open doors for you later on in your career.

Saying all that, a career in the police really isnt THAT bad, admittingly the pay isnt as good BUT one thing you will never get in the private sector is the decent cases - the police generally outsource boring and dull stuff out and keep all the juicy cases for themselves ;) If you really were money orientated then dont forget that with your MSc you could look at taking a crack at managing a HTCU further down the line if you were to stay in the police and then the money increases to £30k-£40kish which aint too bad.

Personally, my plan is to be in the police for 2-3 years for the experience and then go private to earn the big bucks where further down the line I would then start my own company with some contacts and take it even further.

Computer Forensics can be a fascinating area to work in, however you have to have a general inquisitive nature about you - if you aren't interested in trying to solve puzzles and problems and have a mountain of stress then you may wanna look elsewhere.

Of course I must remember to mention 2 pieces of software that you will get to know inside out - Guidance Software's EnCase and Access Data's FTK (Forensic Tool Kit). These courses cost roughly £2k each and that is another reason why you want to join the police - they will pay for them ;) Plus there is another course available only to law enforcement officials which upon completion gives you 20 credits towards your masters.

My email is in my trust and am happy to offer more information if needed. Hope this lil post helps a bit :)

So far I have no regrets whatsoever taking that Masters and have never been happier - it really has turned my life around :)
 
Alty said:
Having partaken in the MSc in Computer Forensics I reckon I could throw my two pence in :)

I had no previous IT qualifications or degree and went in straight at the deep end by doing this masters - having now come out the other end my feelings are thus:

You have to know what you want out of the masters before you do it (I know this sounds stupid but seriously!)

You need to know what job prospects there will be for you after completion of the masters.

Ok, so you have your MSc in computer forensics and want to know what to do next..... easy - get your ass into the police ASAP and join one of the hi tech crime units. Even if you dont want a career in the police you will find job opportunities a lot harder without any police experience behind you!

It took me 6 months of hard grafting to finally get into a hi tech crime unit and even then I had to start as a techie and not a full blown investigator! Salarywise within the police you are looking at anywhere between £20k and £30k depending upon which force you join.

You may of course feel that you want to start earning the big bucks and go straight into private - nowt wrong with that but unless you know you're stuff inside and out and backwards (which you wont until you have experience) you will find it hard to get into. Again, you may have to start in a techy role and be dubbed "an Imaging Munkeh" as that will be your bread and butter until you progress to investigator. Realistaically working in the private sector, salaries can vary from £25k to thru the roof (literally £100ks) depending of course on your position and experience.

I'm sorry to say this again but you REALLY should try and get some police employment on your CV - it really will open doors for you later on in your career.

Saying all that, a career in the police really isnt THAT bad, admittingly the pay isnt as good BUT one thing you will never get in the private sector is the decent cases - the police generally outsource boring and dull stuff out and keep all the juicy cases for themselves ;) If you really were money orientated then dont forget that with your MSc you could look at taking a crack at managing a HTCU further down the line if you were to stay in the police and then the money increases to £30k-£40kish which aint too bad.

Personally, my plan is to be in the police for 2-3 years for the experience and then go private to earn the big bucks where further down the line I would then start my own company with some contacts and take it even further.

Computer Forensics can be a fascinating area to work in, however you have to have a general inquisitive nature about you - if you aren't interested in trying to solve puzzles and problems and have a mountain of stress then you may wanna look elsewhere.

Of course I must remember to mention 2 pieces of software that you will get to know inside out - Guidance Software's EnCase and Access Data's FTK (Forensic Tool Kit). These courses cost roughly £2k each and that is another reason why you want to join the police - they will pay for them ;) Plus there is another course available only to law enforcement officials which upon completion gives you 20 credits towards your masters.

My email is in my trust and am happy to offer more information if needed. Hope this lil post helps a bit :)

So far I have no regrets whatsoever taking that Masters and have never been happier - it really has turned my life around :)
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What kind of things would you doing? Simply finding out of a suspect had some child porn on the machine or more high tech stuff.
 
I do computer forensics for a large company and while the problem/puzzle solving of offline cases is interesting, the real fun for me comes with incident management. Dropping into a situation with a customer who's just been compromised and having to work out what was done, how, which systems were affected and how they should recover, all the time mitigating the impact and keeping their services running. I'd be surprised if you've get anything like that in the Police, another good reason I wouldn't want a position with the police forces is I really don't want to have anything to do with child porn, there is a chance I'll come across it in my work but it's far lower.
Something else to consider, last time I was at Encase in Liverpool (before they moved) I was speaking to an ex policeman there who said customs and excise are also interested in picking up people for forensic work, might be worth a look.
 
Its not for people that want a degree and want all the big money as soon as they finish.

I think most degrees are getting to the point of useless...But it just gives you the edge when you gain some experience...

So with degree and experience you are looking at a good career (providing you stick with it) good money, good experience by the time you are 30....

At leasts thats my plan...
 
teaboy5 said:
What kind of things would you doing? Simply finding out of a suspect had some child porn on the machine or more high tech stuff.
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We deal with all manner of incidents ranging from theft, fraud, murder, hit and runs(!), rape, grooming of minors, sexual deviancy, the list just goes on and on - it's fascinating work and you never know what you will be dealing with next - that's what I love about working in the HTCU.

Fundamentally if a crime has been committed and has involved technology in one form or other (PCs, media, mobiles, etc) then we may be required to investigate.

It's not for the faint hearted tho, there are some quite potentially distressing things that you may have to deal with and remain impartial and emotionally detached from but then if it was easy to do then everyone would be doing it!

As a career I would deffo recommend it! :cool:
 
I wouldn't say don't do the course, just be aware that forensics is a very broad subject, so the course designers idea of forensics might be completely different to a future employers idea. Regardless of the course you take, as Alty said, you will start at the bottom, all you really need is a analytical mind and a very good knowledge of all aspects of computing (how they work, internal structure, how devices talk to each other and store data, networking, everything) the forensic analysis won't come for at least a year and even then you will be second guessed all the time.

I was lucky, I landed a job in the military police CCT and had all the training and courses I could wish for, previous to that the only experience I had was home use and basic system administrators course. I then moved into the private sector and did contract work for the Met and later moved to the Serious Fraud Office for a short while. There would have been no way in hell I would have got either of those jobs without the police background and experience I got in the Army, I would strongly suggest you get yourself in some government role (also, many of the best courses are only open to law enforcement or government agencies).
 
knowlesy said:
im doing computer forensics at northumbria anything you wanna ask email me <<<<< or just reply heh
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HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN!11!1!one!1!
 
NHTCU can only do so much though from what ive heard, with encryption available free off the net these days how do you get around it ? brute force or demand the person hand over the passphrase ?

you have truecrypt and drivecrpyt which encrypts the whole hdd and i've heard these are uncrackable.
 
I was going to do a Forensics Degree, but I opted for MGeoscience instead; that was after realising that Forensics seems to be the new Psychology fab. Huge numbers of people are studying it now, making job opportunities quite scarce for the present time and future
 
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