Free will - does it exist?

Soldato
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A profoundly important question, do you think that we are the intenders of our intentions? Does our conscious mind actually make a decision, or is it merely informed of it?

These are difficult questions to answer, and until recently, I would have argued in favour of the existence of free will. But recently, I have been finding myself settling into the belief that free will does not in fact, exist. Sam Harris' comments on the subject, in his 'Ask Me Anything 2' video, were almost like a firmware upgrade for my brain. I'll post the video below, so I don't end up repeating his comments verbatim, but as far as I can tell, there are simply too many factors influencing the thought process for us to consciously consider, thus, the only way for our mind to make decisions is subconsciously.


(The comments on free will begin at 4:43).

Also, here is Karl Pilkington's take on the subject:


Please post any literature, videos, lectures or anything, on the subject that you are aware of.
 
We are slaves to our environment, social status, culture, genetics, education, parental influences, peer pressure, subconscious needs, and the list goes on.

The more I think about Free Will, the more I am of the opinion that we have it, but it is increasingly limited the older and more committed we become.
 
Also, here is Karl Pilkington's take on the subject

And people say he's thick - very clever.

Anyway:

There are those who think that life has nothing left to chance,
A host of holy horrors to direct our aimless dance.

A planet of playthings,
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
"The stars aren't aligned -
Or the gods are malign"
Blame is better to give than receive.

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.

There are those who think that they were dealt a losing hand,
The cards were stacked against them - they weren't born in Lotus-Land.

All preordained-
A prisoner in chains-
A victim of venomous fate.
Kicked in the face,
You can't pray for a place
In Heaven's unearthly estate.

You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill;
I will choose a path that's clear-
I will choose Free Will.

Each of us-
A cell of awareness-
Imperfect and incomplete.
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt that's far too fleet.
 
I got to 22seconds and he mentioned Facebook and Twitter, I wanted to watch but my brain instantly got me to stop right there.
 
We are slaves to our environment, social status, culture, genetics, education, parental influences, peer pressure, subconscious needs, and the list goes on.

The more I think about Free Will, the more I am of the opinion that we have it, but it is increasingly limited the older and more committed we become.

This covers what I think.

We have free will but we are slaves to our obligations.
 
No we don't have free will in the shape as believed by some/a lot of people, if you analyse every decision you've ever made you will find a chain of events leading to it - some aspects you might not even be aware of that caused you to make the "decision" you did.

I don't believe we are completely slaves to causality however but it would take a massively long post to explain what I think in this regard.
 
How do you define free will?

Went to watch the video and all i got was more anti-religious clap trap again. Turned off after 5 mins
Then you switched off before he even began to speak about freewill which was the whole point of watching the video in the first place :o
 
We are slaves to our environment, social status, culture, genetics, education, parental influences, peer pressure, subconscious needs, and the list goes on.

The more I think about Free Will, the more I am of the opinion that we have it, but it is increasingly limited the older and more committed we become.

Or to paraphrase : We have it but having it makes little difference.
 
If there are complex mathematical equations that can be applied to everything in the known universe (even though we don't know the extremely complex formulas for them at this given moment, or might never know the formulas) it is naive to assume that our behaviours and actions (and the behaviours and actions of other lifeforms) can not have a mathematical formula applied to them, which would make free will non-existent.
 
I am going to say that we do. If I can make a decision on something completely trivial then that is all the proof I need that I have free will. So tonight when I had to decide between butterscotch or lemon meringue ice cream, I had the butterscotch. If you can see yourself making different decisions given the same inputs then free will exists.

Not that it matters because the difference to our day to day lives is zero either way.
 
I am going to say that we do. If I can make a decision on something completely trivial then that is all the proof I need that I have free will. So tonight when I had to decide between butterscotch or lemon meringue ice cream, I had the butterscotch. If you can see yourself making different decisions given the same inputs then free will exists.

Not that it matters because the difference to our day to day lives is zero either way.

Did you make that decision purely with free will or was there a myriad of other factors that led you to choose Butterscotch, such as your body craving something in the butterscotch that may not be in the lemon meringue for example?

How trivial was the decision? Or is it that we are simply unaware of the complexity of events that led you to choose Butterscotch Ice Cream?
 
Did you make that decision purely with free will or was there a myriad of other factors that led you to choose Butterscotch, such as your body craving something in the butterscotch that may not be in the lemon meringue for example?

How trivial was the decision? Or is it that we are simply unaware of the complexity of events that led you to choose Butterscotch Ice Cream?

Whilst certainly possible I doubt it. In either case I refer you to the final sentence in my post. In reality this is one of those unanswerable philosophical questions with no right or wrong answer and no real impact.
 
It's an interesting philosophical question but as with an awful lot of philosophical questions I'm on the side of "doesn't much matter either way". The points by Mr Harris about lacking free will were well enough made but I don't believe it is something you could answer definitively either way and he seemed to be wavering rather heavily towards a position that you can.
 
Freewill only exists when one is firstly conscious of one self and is then aware of one’s position relative to absolute-reality/Reality. The aim of consciousness is enable the development of conscience such that any wrong, oka devolutionary action, is then limited to one self and not to others. This is where thoughts come in. One’s thoughts, being unlimited in nature because they are not material, are then limited when The Physical Cosmos was created [and then expressed through Evolution], the human brain being the portal between the spiritual and the material. As such, the material realm is where The Play of Reality takes place, humans being able to evolve when we are living on Earth with non-humans being able to evolve only after their physical demise. If true, what then is “Animal Rights”?

Thoughts were gifted when the humanoid raised his head and became bipedal, thereby projecting his brain from the back/past to the front/future. This act of Evolution gifts full speech which then gifts full language and from language, came thoughts. When humans gained thoughts, we stopped bowing to Nature which then means that we are able to [seemingly] manipulate Nature. Non-thinkers have to bow to Nature and are actually fully guided by Nature. When a non-thinker starts to think beyond its limited range of language, it merely perceive shades of light and darkness. Without language, there can be no thoughts. A Simplicity which Eludes [ASWE].

Freewill, or freedom, is just another word for Truth/absoluteness of truth. The truth will not only set you free, it is freedom per se. How, one may ask. Without [fuller/full] thoughts, the realm of all non-thinkers, be it vegetation, animal or infants, there can be no conscience, thoughts being gifted in order that humans are able to perceive and see their own reality - to be conscious of one self, be that within or without. For example, those born blind can never conceptualise, let alone realise, colours, their universe being one of shades of light. In the same vein, a chimp has no realisation of self, regardless of belief or disbelief. When a chimp tries to think beyond its very limited scope of thoughts, it will merely act instinctually, instinct for animals/non-thinkers being one of acting according to intelligence per se, Intelligence, with their “guidance” coming directly from “Nature”.

Should an unseen, invisible, and materially non-fathomable dimension exists, how will any human conceptualise, let alone realise, this universe? When there is no real choice, the choice between Ali Baba or his henchmen becomes merely the better way to lose it all. When real choice is lacking because one lacks true connection to the reality in question, there is only gambling. As all know, gambling under perfect conditions realises neither loss nor gain. Under imperfect conditions, however, there will be a final loss. For Humanity, this loss is one’s devolution, devolution not being full destruction other than advancing towards that finality.

The reality about spirituality is not about thoughts but about a repeatable and lucid experience, reality being one’s experience whereas others’ experience being merely one’s knowledge. The reason reality is individualised is because of two key points, namely that it is not subjectable to thoughts, especially others’ thoughts, oka preaching, reading, debating, arguing, knowledging, imagining and so forth. The other reason is the bingo factor for when “The Other” is also experiencing independently the same exact thing, that then is the proof of the existence. This is why Divinity, has eluded humans throughout our history, Divinity being positive spirituality whereas thoughts are non-Divine spirituality.

As such, freewill/freedom only exists when one realises one’s true infrastructure - how the human is really “constructed”. Should Spirituality exists and it is a super, super [ad infinitum] set of Humanity, being blind to this reality mean humans are like chimps and Divinity is like the human. Seemingly to add fuel to fire, those who are able to communicate with Divinity/Spirituality have no [as in zero] means of proving this reality to another. For those who cannot see beyond their blind-cum-blinded faith in others, oka worship, or in the prowess of their very limited self, oka saviourship, the above example of those born blind being unable to realise colours offers an exact analogy. There is zero way for the material to connect, gauge and sense the non-material. It is impossible because it is principled as such for very many valid reasons. On the other hand, once the spiritual dimension is [self] realised, one becomes [a part of] Infinity, The Spiritual being infinite [in material terms] and The Material being [very] limited/finite regardless of “Light Years”, “Empty Space” and similar myths. It is a myth when you can go to Mars, say, in the split of a second. But how will anyone know, let alone realise the validity or falseness of this situation?

Reality, be it Freewill/Freedom/Truth, is a two-way flow whereas non reality is a one-way flow. ASWE. When one has no means of connecting to a reality, it is because the flow is one-way. A moment will arrive when many will be able to perceive and even see The Spiritual and that moment will also mean that thoughts are also then readable, thoughts being the negative aspects within Spirituality with one’s immediate thoughts being bounded by one’s “Aura”, thoughts of the past like nostalgia and memory being one’s subconscious and thoughts of the future like analysing, planning and plotting being one’s supraconscious. Within Divinity, The Past, including dinosaurs, viruses and cancers, are “locked” within His Subconscious, oka The Collective Subconscious, nothing having been destroyed since The Physical Creation and then Evolution, whereas that which has yet to arrive, including ex-human “scientists”, malevolents and so forth, those who had died unrequited of their prowess and ambitions, are “locked/resides” within Divinity’s Supraconsciousness, oka The Collective Supraconsciousness.

All humans have a feminine/past [thought] and a masculine/futuristic [thought] nature. This duality/dichotomy is not for expressing one’s Fame, Fortune & Immortality, oka one’s Vested Interest, but is for limiting one another. Without Femininity, Masculinity will aggress/control without limit. By the same token, without Masculinity, Femininity will be so depressed/abandoned that nothing will get done. There is no such thing as freewill when we have yet to realised what freedom really is. A good example is the religion/religiosity of “Democracy”. When a human is only able to look after himself, Democracy means the road to abandoned. Similarly, the religion of “Communism” is merely control when most are not able to decide on their own destiny regardless of how deluded that may be. As such, Democracy merely ends up as having the freedom to be nonsensical whereas Communism is not having the freedom to be sensible, the ideologies of Democracy/Capitalism and Communism/Socialism being merely half a dozen vs six of the other, half full being half empty. If true, how many are free to will anything real other than to imagine that they are free, the freedom to destroy oneself and then others not being freedom/freewill but is merely Control-cum-Abandonment, Control being Abandonment expressed with Abandonment being Control suppressed.

Those who are free never question about freedom because Freedom is not about Too Much/Over or Too Little/Under, Freedom is about being truthful before anything else. Just look at how free “Politicans” are, be they “elected by others” or the “elected by self” varieties. Almost everyone of these Lunatic-cum-Idiotic think they have “Made it” when they get to the top of the pile and don’t almost everyone of them are on the make. When one is being dutiful, where does the constant idea of tea-break, class entitlement, benefit, index-linked and other nonsense come from? From Greed-Fear, Greed being Fear expressed with Fear being none other than Greed suppressed. Without one single exception because couplets/dichotomies are principled to show that the reality has yet to be realised other than the frivolous going nowhere tango between For & Against, Right & Wrong, Good & Bad and that biggy, Femininity & Masculinity. In Reality/Truth, The Feminine is The Kinetic/Empowerment and The masculine is The Potential/Knowledge, both being separate but are inseparable. How will it look when The Police and The Judiciary are always fighting as to see who is better? Freewill is The Kinetic but only when She is able to see the road illuminated by The Potential, oka The Truth.

When you have the knowledge but not the power, you will not be able to handle the knowledge. Conversely, when you have the power but not its/the knowledge or what the power is really for, you will not be able to handle the power. Witness therefore, knowledge and power junkies and that biggy, “Nuclear Power”/”Nuclear Option”. This headless chicken is still talking about “Impossibilities”, oka the gamble within statistics. Just watch what happens in “2102” in “The Shimas” should this headless chickens be still allowed to roam free in their narrow range, the reality within nuclear technology being Fusion/Unity and not Fission/Division. And here ends the seemingly vast subject with its experience being as simple as flipping a light switch, much like when one needs to illuminate a room without recourse to knowing how electricity generation and its grid/transmission works. This is because Complexity/Divinity has no meaning should it not be Simplicity/Humanity too. ASWE. Do not react, be the reaction one of spitting venom or of coughing blood, but witness. This is because correction is only possible when we are able to witness whereas when we react, we lose a little of The Living within.
 
Yes absolutely Free Will exists, a prime example is I have decided not to reply to this thread, I am not compelled to reply to this thread and therefore I will not reply to this thread.

*&^%.
 
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