Freeview HD reception

Thanks for the video @Merlin5. Good eyes from @mmj_uk :)

Blimey, air-spaced coax. All the air-spaced I come across is the old brown pre-digital 'low loss' stuff that I take down for a customer when installing a new aerial. Your stuff appears to have a white jacket, so I'm left wondering if this is early digital-era RG6 or CT100 before the designed changed to a solid foam dielectric.

Using air as the insulator is (or was) cheap and efficient, but the cell structure isn't strong (kinks too easily when bent), and as @mmj_uk mentioned, it lets water run down inside. It has a poor reputation for weak jacket strength, and the combination of a copper braid over an aluminium Mylar foil causes a bi-metal reaction as soon as there's moisture present. This means a crack or abrasion in the jacket which lets in water results in the cable corroding like a bugger. It doesn't help either that the centre core in a lot of this stuff was steel with a thin coating of copper. Hello brown water.

None of the decent aerial wholesalers I use bother with stuff like this. Standard RG6 is cheap enough and stands up to handling far better. However, there's stuff on Ebay, Amazon and at least a couple of the web/mail order consumer wholesale sites that sell it. I would imagine for a DIYer / builder / electrician who doesn't know better then maybe there's some appeal. Seems rather short-sighted though for an aerial installer to use unless they really are scraping the bottom of the barrel on price.

Get your installer to supply and fit Webro WF100 or Raydex CT100 or Philex PF100; then forget about cabling problems for the next 25 years.
 
Sounds to me like the proper fix is very likely to be replace the cable with decent cable. Even if you can find and fix a short somewhere in the cable, chances are it's just going to pop up elsewhere if the cable is reaching the end of it's life or is suffering from wear and tear/corrosion. It does look like cheap cable rather than the good, foam filled stuff.

What I would do if you can reach the aerial is to run a bit of new cable with new connectors just to test if that is the issue, both with and without the amp. If that works you should be able to pinpoint where the problem is and replace either the cable, the amp or both. If you can't get to the aerial, you're just going to have to get someone in to do it.

If you've got one of those cheap indoor aerials, you could plug it into the back of the Freeview box, and that would at least tell you that the box and TV is okay if you can detect the missing channels.
 
Thanks for the info guys. There's no way I'd personally be going up on the roof, but I don't think they changed the cable, I think this is the same cable I've had for years. I never had signal loss before they came and did the work last year, so I'm not sure it's the cable. I'm thinking it's whatever they've attached to it on the roof, or, the power supply box.
 
Merlin5 said:
Thanks for the info guys. There's no way I'd personally be going up on the roof, but I don't think they changed the cable, I think this is the same cable I've had for years. I never had signal loss before they came and did the work last year, so I'm not sure it's the cable. I'm thinking it's whatever they've attached to it on the roof, or, the power supply box.
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It's quite possible something wasn't sealed or closed properly, water has got in, and now that cable will be useless. If it's not correctly clipped to the tiles, wind and rain moving it back and forth will abrade it. It's quite possible that just the act of disturbing it last year has broken it somewhere, or weakened it to the point that it's now failed. It might even be a loose connection in the aerial.

It will be honestly quicker to replace the whole cable and redo the connection in the aerial than try and find a break and fix it. A modern cable is much better made (all copper), and there are no air gaps, the middle part is fairly solid plastic foam, so water can't get in. Any joints outside should have self-amalgamating tape wrapped around it to increase waterproofing.

You can faff about with these things for ages, and then realise it would have been quicker just to replace the cable. There's always a chance it's the masthead amp, but that can be quickly replaced to test, but really you might not even need one as per described by lucid.

You might be better off just biting the bullet and getting someone in for a new installation, maybe reusing your old aerial if it's the correct type and in decent condition. By the time you've paid them to come out and check everything, they might as well have changed the cable unless you have some particularly complex installation.
 
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Merlin5 said:
Thanks for the info guys. There's no way I'd personally be going up on the roof, but I don't think they changed the cable, I think this is the same cable I've had for years. I never had signal loss before they came and did the work last year, so I'm not sure it's the cable. I'm thinking it's whatever they've attached to it on the roof, or, the power supply box.
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The guy going up and fitting the masthead amp and new aerial may well have been the catalyst point for the issues you're having now. The thing is though that even if the masthead amp has to be replaced, you've still got what looks like water ingress inside the cable. Whether the cable worked before is a moot point. It's buggered now, and it ain't going to get any better or fix itself.

It's likely that because the job was done on Arqiva's contract price that the installer did the minimum possible and either didn't notice the cable or decided it was better to say nothing. With the cable being old, not that good in the first place, and exposed to UV for years and years, the jacket will have gone crusty and brittle so cracked as he moved it around to make the hook-ups.

You could argue that he should have mentioned if he noticed that the cable was shot. This sort of thing can go two ways: "Well, I wasn't expecting that. It has been fine up to now, but I can see from the sample you brought down that it doesn't look good. I suppose it's only sensible to replace it since it's a new aerial going up", or "It was fine before you went on the roof. Isn't this covered in the aerial upgrade? You want how much to replace it?! You're trying to rip me off". You can guess which is the more likely scenario. It's easy to appreciate how an installer working on a minimum price contract wouldn't want to get that kind of hassle. It's basic human nature.

Cable is cheap, relatively; even the good stuff. With a typical install the average cable drop is about 15 mtrs. The cost then for WF100 / TX100 / PF100 is roughly £15 for the cable plus the cost of a bit of time to install it. It's a false economy to have work done and not replace the old cable. This is just something you need to do.
 
If it's an old cable then there's even more reason to replace it, just try to make sure anyone you get out is going to do a good job. If you're going to do it yourself or with help of family then like Steampunk says, get some decent quality cable with a solid dielectric and make sure that any connector outside is covered with self-amalgamating tape to protect it from the elements. Those screw on f-connectors aren't water tight at all.
 
I wouldn't recommend anyone climb about on their roof if they don't know what they are doing. If you've got an aerial in the loft or on a pole attached under the eaves and you're happy up a ladder, then it's doable. Otherwise you have to pay for a tradesman, but it helps if you know what the job entails and you can ask for the job to be done the way you want eg, a quality cable as listed by lucid to replace the old failed stuff.
 
I think you said previously you have adjoining flats ?
have they had problems (with older cable / reception ... ) could propose a shared contractor visit to address 'joint' problem,
I'd ask for contractor recommendations anyway.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. Been raining today but hasn't affected the aerial. Signal came back again last night and is still on at the moment.

Ok so, ballpark figure, what sort of amount should I expect to pay for an engineer to come out, go up on the roof, check it all out and replace the cable to WF100 / TX100 / PF100?
 
How long is a piece of string?

You should ring some local installation companies. Don't make a big job out of getting a couple of quotes though. The price will be around what your local market conditions dictates. It also depends on the type of property (working on a bungalow is cheaper than a 3-storey) and there may be unique factors such as shared occupation or parking restrictions or issues about access such as part of a road needs to be blocked off. All these things means that anyone quoting blind is wasting their time and yours.

Stick with small local suppliers. Avoid the big national firms, particularly Aerialfarce ( ;) ). They give a low-ball quote then bump the price up when on-site.

Maybe have a look at some of the sites such as Checkatrade and similar to see going rates in your neck of the woods? Then, give a couple a ring. If what you're hearing is "We're the cheapest. We can do it next day" then give them a wide berth. No decent installers are free next day. They're booked up with work with clients who appreciate the quality. The people who are free next day are the ones without repeat business and with a poor reputation.

If someone is asking you lots of questions, then tells you about the quality of the gear and how they'll do the job, then gives you pricing including contingency for say changing a poor quality wall socket or covering the 'what if's' of say needing to replace the mast amp or replacing a broken tile then these are the sort of people that you want.
 
Thanks lucid. Can't you just move to finchley and come and do the job for me. I'll have the kettle on and I make great cakes :D
 
lucid said:
How long is a piece of string?

You should ring some local installation companies. Don't make a big job out of getting a couple of quotes though. The price will be around what your local market conditions dictates. It also depends on the type of property (working on a bungalow is cheaper than a 3-storey) and there may be unique factors such as shared occupation or parking restrictions or issues about access such as part of a road needs to be blocked off. All these things means that anyone quoting blind is wasting their time and yours.

Stick with small local suppliers. Avoid the big national firms, particularly Aerialfarce ( ;) ). They give a low-ball quote then bump the price up when on-site.

Maybe have a look at some of the sites such as Checkatrade and similar to see going rates in your neck of the woods? Then, give a couple a ring. If what you're hearing is "We're the cheapest. We can do it next day" then give them a wide berth. No decent installers are free next day. They're booked up with work with clients who appreciate the quality. The people who are free next day are the ones without repeat business and with a poor reputation.

If someone is asking you lots of questions, then tells you about the quality of the gear and how they'll do the job, then gives you pricing including contingency for say changing a poor quality wall socket or covering the 'what if's' of say needing to replace the mast amp or replacing a broken tile then these are the sort of people that you want.
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This company is in my high street and seems to 26 have excellent reviews on Google, overall score 4.7 out of 5. What do you think lucid?
https://g.co/kgs/itRQFj

https://www.wardaerials.co.uk/
 
I'd say they look pretty solid. They're long established and have repeat customer reviews. Give them a call for a chat and see what they say. :)
 
Thanks lucid, I'll do that on Monday. :) I asked you because one review says "Great service from this company - would highly recommend. Gary came around to visit and provided us with a quote that same day. Installation of a new aerial on a flat roof took place the next day." and you said be wary of installers that can do next day installations. But yeah, with them being long established I think they'll be trustworthy. I'll of course suggest the cable types you listed. Hopefully that will be second nature to them and they'll tell me they always use any of those cables.
 
Yay, I popped into Ward Aerials shop and they said all the right things. I asked them what cable they use and was told Webro. Excellent.
I asked them when they can come round and was told they're booked for a week. I said to the woman I'm happy she didn't say tomorrow as I was told to give a wide berth to anyone coming next day!

So they're coming next Tuesday between 10am and 12pm. :) Call out charge is £80 plus VAT. She said cable Is 50p per metre and reckoned would be about £25. So total cost might be in the region of £150. Of course, that depends on if there's any problem with the masthead amp or power supply.

I also mentioned the aerial going to my front room. She said let them fix the bedroom connection first (which is the main issue here) and then they can check the connection in my front room to see if it's ok or not. Basically, ever since my front room was decorated quite a while ago, I've not used the room yet and not used the aerial in my front room for ages, since well before last year's aerial installation. It's got the old push connector on it. I'm guessing they'll need to run a second new Webro cable to that and run it from the same masthead amp. Perhaps they'll need to add another power supply too for the front room?
 
I would get all of the cable replaced regardless if it's the same stuff as pictured earlier, you may as well do it now rather than to potentially have to pay for another call out charge later.
 
mmj_uk said:
I would get all of the cable replaced regardless if it's the same stuff as pictured earlier, you may as well do it now rather than to potentially have to pay for another call out charge later.
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Indeed, I'll get it all done in one go to save a second call out.
 
maybe lucid will explain ... but what is the expected strategy/routing driving two sockets , a Y juntion somewhere on the house exterior .... is that where ingress might be ?
 
TV aerial people came this morning and all fixed now! :)

First thing he did was pull the screw connector off the aerial cable going to the Wolsey power supply in the bedroom and said it was wet but not overly so. He immediately got the tv working and then went up the ladder and checked the aerial and post and fittings on the roof at the front of the house.

He said the roof was covered in moss, and he couldn't get all the way up to the aerial as it was too slippery. At first he said it might be something has fallen over and that he would get it working, but that next year I might need to get a new post and fitting installed as they eventually rust away, which with labour would be around £250.

Anyway, he later told me that it all looks solid and dry there. He also checked the signal on my front room aerial and said it's all working fine ready for a tv.

He suspected the cable at the back of the house going to my bedroom tv would have cracks allowing water in, particularly as it was close to the gutters and downpipes. And to be honest, I've noticed water overflow when there's been heavy rain as the gutters are obviously a bit blocked. So that couldn't have helped the cable stay dry.

He fitted 15 metres of brown Webro cable while his workmate cut off the old cable at my bedroom wall and drilled a new hole next to it to feed the new cable through. They did a great job. Only small criticism is the plaster is a bit cracked where he drilled and I was hoping he'd fill it but I'll do that myself at some point. He sealed the outside of the hole because I told him I don't want any water coming in and causing damp.

Anyway, he said I'll have no more problems now. So very trustworthy company not trying to rip me off. He said it was £98 for the first hour and would be £45 for each hour after that. Well, considering they were there for an hour and a half, he still only charged me for one hour plus cable. Perhaps because I was nice to them and offered tea and coffee, which in fact they didn't want. :D

So I'm very happy with the price, wasn't expensive at all as I had budgeted for two to three times as much.

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That's good -
... they changed all the cable then - your comment about not being able to get up to the aerial, confused me - was the living room an internal spur.

(freeviews been breaking up in Cambridge for last 3/4days on some channels - Sandy Heath transmitter
... but I couldn't see any information about atsmospheric effects, or explanation, like mux changes )
 
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