Fuel Protests...do they work?

Nitefly said:
I'd rather they increase the tax on other luxury goods (alcohol / cigarettes) than further increase tax on something many people are required to use to earn money.

To extents, of course.
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This

The 'luxury goods' tax list is really outdated and out of touch now. Fuel is not a luxury in my eyes, when this tax is hitting even those who don't have a car but use public transport and buy food that has been transported from one side of the country to the other

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Minxy said:
You're forgetting that not everyone would be able to join in a protest even if they wanted to. I'm a sales rep and I can imagine the reaction my company would give me if I refused to turn out for work because I was protesting even if it was in their interest long term.
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True...short of taking a days holiday (for yourself Minxy) or working from home in my case or even taking public transport to the office I don't really know how it would work for a portion of the population
 
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GAC said:
http://www.racfoundation.org/faq/Economics



always funny how a lot of people miss this tiny fact when there on about fuel prices.

the problem is the way the uk has evoloved you have to drive or use expensive public transport to get to work, as has been seen on these forums in a few threads now where theres people traveling 90-120mins each way to work because they cant afford to move closer.

untill theres a proper debate/protest that shows theres better alternatives things wont change and the rate things are going i doubt we will see it within the next 30-40 years.
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That discrepancy is because all of those other countries charge less for diesel than they do for unleaded. In the UK we have it 'backwards' in the sense that diesel is more expensive. I don't know why it is different.
 
the last fuel protest and shortage i remember (2000?) the local garage put its prices up to 99p because it actually had some fuel. everyone boycotted it so much that it shutdown a few months later


the other thing i remember about fuel 'protests' is ques of people filling up to the brim the night before :/ how the hell is that protesting. its just buying your fuel on a different day and effects nobody
 
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Nitefly said:
I'd rather they increase the tax on other luxury goods (alcohol / cigarettes) than further increase tax on something many people are required to use to earn money.

To extents, of course.
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Difference is phanominal though.
2010 figures
Fuel 25.7 bn
Tobbaco 7.6bn
Beer & cider 3.4bn
Wine 2.9bn
Spirits 2.3bn

So would need to basically quadruple all of those taxes to cover it. Ok that's an extreme, but shows you how much it raises. Becuase everyone uses it and in large quantities.
 
maybe if EVERYBODY bought fuel from 1 company (say shell) the other companies would have to reduce the cost to try get the business in.
i know the garages dont make a massive amount on fuel but if they knock off 3 or 4 pence its better than nothing, they may even sell it at cost as they will also be loosing sales from all the other stuff they sell.
 
Glaucus said:
Difference is phanominal though.
2010 figures
Fuel 25.7 bn
Tobbaco 7.6bn
Beer & cider 3.4bn
Wine 2.9bn
Spirits 2.3bn

So would need to basically quadruple all of those taxes to cover it. Ok that's an extreme, but shows you how much it raises. Becuase everyone uses it and in large quantities.
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True, it's something that's obvious to tax because of its heavy use.
 
Ahleckz said:
When people say that they want to pay 80p a litre and what not, then they need to take into account the changes in the price of oil. A price of crude in 2000 was around $30 a barrel. Today it is $105 dollars. Sure, taxation has risen highly but as has the price of oil thus meaning that it costs a hell of a lot more to produce.

Second to this, the government could cut fuel duty which would lower it by a few pence a litre but then there'd be a massive budgetary blackhole which would need to be plugged. Where do you plan to get the money to fill that?
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The actual price to produce fuel is still pretty cheap, in fact the UK has some of the cheapest fuel before tax in the world. A lower oil would help, but continuous fuel tax rises over the years have had a much more significant impact.

However, I do agree with your second point. If you reduce revenue from fuel you have to find something else to replace it.....
 
we have already seen that when lpg started to take off when the tax on that started to jump up. and im sure if hydrogen started to replace diesel for public transports and uk only hauliers a tax would turn up on that.

would be interesting to see what sort of difference the price is per mile for hydrogen over diesel for public transport though. as you would only need to replace existing fuel tanks at there yards rather than at every petrol station in the uk for motorist. would be a way of extending pertol/diesel stocks at least and maybe getting us off of oil.

but again i guess its a case of someone taking the gamble first which the way things are no one seems to be able to try it.
 
Nitefly said:
True, it's something that's obvious to tax because of its heavy use.
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That's because for many people there is absolutely no choice.

Unless you are within walking/cycling distance from work, grow all your own food, and never buy consumer goods (or in fact anything which hasn't been produced at the location it's sold at) you are using and paying for fuel, either directly or indirectly.

It's a necessity for almost everyone in this country to live which is why it's such a blow when it's constantly raised and why it strikes such a nerve with people.
 
The only way it can ever make a difference is if people start walking/riding/etc. on specific days rather than driving.

The boycotts that use to happen when you'd be told not to buy any fuel on x date were absolutely useless. All that would happen is that people would buy more fuel the day before or after. The same amount of fuel would be sold end of week.
 
GAC said:
we have already seen that when lpg started to take off when the tax on that started to jump up. and im sure if hydrogen started to replace diesel for public transports and uk only hauliers a tax would turn up on that.

would be interesting to see what sort of difference the price is per mile for hydrogen over diesel for public transport though. as you would only need to replace existing fuel tanks at there yards rather than at every petrol station in the uk for motorist. would be a way of extending pertol/diesel stocks at least and maybe getting us off of oil.

but again i guess its a case of someone taking the gamble first which the way things are no one seems to be able to try it.
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I don't really ever see hydrogen taking off because of the energy cost in producing it, the transport/storage costs and the fact that it's energy density as a liquid is over 7 times less than that of petrol.
 
Prices of petrol in this country are crazy compared to many others, Americans would die of shock if they came here. Yet more regressive taxes resulting in a loss of government revenue by the increased expenditure in benefits.
 
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alx said:
I don't really ever see hydrogen taking off because of the energy cost in producing it, the transport/storage costs and the fact that it's energy density as a liquid is over 7 times less than that of petrol.
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id thought they had sorted the production side and compared to whats on offer now its on par ?

thats why i was thinking about maybe public transport using it as a way to make public transport greener and cheeper, as while fuel costs go up hydrogen should by rights go down with more efficient production/usage. and if the gov backed a fuel producing center just for public transport it could be a better alternative than taxing it to hell and back.
 
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