Fuss being created over the size of Sony's Full frame mirror-less cameras

for me the a7ii only makes sense with compact slightly slower primes I'd be much more tempted to buy one if Sony came out with a range of affordable pancake primes even if they were f2 or 2.8. I know they got to squeeze i all the AF etc but whe you look at the size of some of the OM primes upto 50mm you've got to wander whats going on with modern glass!
 
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Amp34 said:
My direct comparison with what I have now and what I would "like"

http://camerasize.com/compact/#488.393,7.322,488.553,7.139,ha,t

Significant size difference there.

Then the 9 extra batteries and the 120-300 f/2.8 which makes most of it irrelevant for travel... :p

That said I only take the 120-300 for specific trips so most of the time the setup would be a fair chunk smaller.
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here's my camera with the lens I want to have:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#290.476,ha,t

Not sure loosing the mirror will save me much!
 
Janesy B said:
I don't know how people can get so emotional over brands, it either does the job or it doesn't. If it doesn't do what you want, it doesn't make it useless.

If size really is a problem you wouldn't go full frame to start off with, you can't expect to have a full 35mm sensor and the lenses it needs to cover the image circle to be so much smaller than full frame DSLRs.

I keep my 70D for motorsport photography, but when walking about and going out it's much easier to take my A6000 with me
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The Soy NEX APS-C cameras make more sense but you can still eaisly end up with some fairly awkward combinations. This would be my Sony nEX setup:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#535.446,ha,t

I tried it in a shop and it just doesn't balance well but the total size and weight is reasonable for the image quality, focal range and aperture IMO.
Personally I think m43 system is spot on when it comes to balancing sensor size, lenses size, image quality and ergonomics.




What Sony should have done with their FF NEX is simply kept the Alpha mount. That way they would already have a complete line up of lenses, will have an easier time producing wide angle lenses, the IBIS would be simpler, they could use bigger batteries with longer shot life and maintained better ergonomics. The A7R2 is damn good camera buts its horrible to hold and damn awkward as soon as you put a moderate lens on it.
 
D.P. said:
here's my camera with the lens I want to have:
http://camerasize.com/compact/#290.476,ha,t

Not sure loosing the mirror will save me much!
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It might not save 'you' much, but every little helps.

Still, some people will opt for mirrorless over DSLR's regardless of size.
Mirrorless camera's offer other advantages. For one it's nice to be able to see what the final image will look like before you take the picture.
It's main disadvantage.. autofocus, seems like it won't be long before it outperforms DSLR's, given it's current rate of improvement.

"Times have changed in just a year or two though. While we were skeptical that any of the photos would be in focus for this test, the Sony A7RII performed as well as the Nikon and only slightly less than the Canon. To be fair to all of these cameras, our "Miley Cyrus" test was a beast of an autofocus test. All the lenses were shot at 70mm and the swing of our wrecking ball celebrity spanned a good 7 feet from apex to apex. As a whole, the entire group of cameras locked onto focus about 30% of the time with the Canon 5DSR just barely winning out.

If you were one of the photographers who warned us that AF performance on the mirrorless system would be a deal breaker, you need to give the A7RII a try (and the new A7sII as well). It is too early to tell if the increased performance of the A7RII is going to become the standard for Sony auto focusing but if this is the future then we are pleasantly surprised. "

https://fstoppers.com/originals/fstoppers-reviews-canon-5dsr-sony-a7rii-and-nikon-d810-89896

Also mirrorless camera's (particularly Fuji) all seem to look soo much nicer than Nikon/Canon DSLR's.
 
Oh, I'm all for mirror-less once the technology is there. Its not the weight or size in the slightest, its the fact there is no mirror slap, viewfinder black out, complex mechanical part, faster continuous shooting that is more interesting.

AF is definitely getting better and some people have found the Sony A7RII keeps p but equally plenty of other peoples finding it lacking still, and that is before the big improvements Nikon have just done recently. Still, I dont think we are far away. The viewfinders still need much more work. Apparently the new Epsom EVF used by Leica makes the A7R2 EVF look like a cheap toy. A few more iterations like that and Nikon ad Canon will be all set, which matches the rumors and even semi-official announcements they have made recently.


As for looks, I don;t give a damn. It could look like a pink *****, its just a tool. Besides, the sony NEX camera are ugly bricks. The Fuji's are nicer but I really don't get the whole retro look, designed for these weirdos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I
 
AF on mirrorless getting better and closer to the current crop of DSLRs, but the gap just then increases again when Nikon and Canon release their newer DSLR's.

They'll always be ahead.
 
Steve M said:
AF on mirrorless getting better and closer to the current crop of DSLRs, but the gap just then increases again when Nikon and Canon release their newer DSLR's.

They'll always be ahead.
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No they won't. My D810 doesn't focus any better than my D700. Nikon have made practically zero improvement over 8 years. Sony have made HUGE advancements in a single year. Maybe the D5's af system will be an actual improvement, but it's been a long time coming.. and Nikon's progress has been SLOW.
 
D.P. said:
As for looks, I don;t give a damn. It could look like a pink *****, its just a tool. Besides, the sony NEX camera are ugly bricks. The Fuji's are nicer but I really don't get the whole retro look, designed for these weirdos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVmmYMwFj1I
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It makes a difference when you are taking pictures of people. I capture the lust in peoples eyes when they look at my Fuji.
 
An Exception said:
No they won't. My D810 doesn't focus any better than my D700. Nikon have made practically zero improvement over 8 years. Sony have made HUGE advancements in a single year. Maybe the D5's af system will be an actual improvement, but it's been a long time coming.. and Nikon's progress has been SLOW.
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You probably need to read the manual and learn to configure the AF system for the tasks you are doing. There are big improvements in 3D tracking, group focus, continuous AF, low light sensitivity and accuracy.

Sony may have made good progress, but they were a long way behind, and now withe the D5 another big step back.
 
D.P. said:
You probably need to read the manual and learn to configure the AF system for the tasks you are doing. There are big improvements in 3D tracking, group focus, continuous AF, low light sensitivity and accuracy.

Sony may have made good progress, but they were a long way behind, and now withe the D5 another big step back.
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Don't need 3d tracking or group focus. I need to be able to pinpoint my focus. There was no difference that I could notice to the rest of the stuff. And I tested for it in identical conditions etc.

Let's see how the D5 AF actually performs. AF is more than just putting a gazillion AF points in the viewfinder. I'm guessing it now FINALLY has cross type AF points that cover the rule of 1/3's?
I'm looking for a system that can get someone's eye in focus at F1.4 without slowing WAY down in low light. Right now the D810 AF is too slow and shot's get missed. Sure it's ok relative to what else is currently on offer, but the D810 should already be using the D5 system instead of recycled decade old tech.
 
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An Exception said:
Don't need 3d tracking or group focus. I need to be able to pinpoint my focus. There was no difference that I could notice to the rest of the stuff. And I tested for it in identical conditions etc.

Let's see how the D5 AF actually performs. AF is more than just putting a gazillion AF points in the viewfinder. I'm guessing it now FINALLY has cross type AF points that cover the rule of 1/3's?
I'm looking for a system that can get someone's eye in focus at F1.4 without slowing WAY down in low light. Right now the D810 AF is too slow and shot's get missed. Sure it's ok relative to what else is currently on offer, but the D810 should already be using the D5 system instead of recycled decade old tech.
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The D5 from my understand wont lock focus on someones eye at f1.4 better then a a7r2.

the reason is because the a7r2 has AF eye detection which is an amazing feature.

Another thing about DSLR is that due to the nature of the AF system, some lenses may need calibrating to get pin point accuracy.

With mirrorless you dont have to calibrate anything, When it locks on focus you know 100% its in focus.

Sony are looking to release a so called pro body with bigger battery and dual card slots to compete with a pro DSLR.

This could change the landscape of things if the general speed of the AF can match a D5/1DX

The IQ, features, AF accuracy etc are all there.

They are just missing a few more ingredients such as the below:

  1. Fast AF lock on like D5/1dx
  2. dual card slot
  3. bigger battery
  4. improved viewfinder
  5. After sale PRO support liek canon and nikons one


They really are not far off.

I use both the a7r2 and 5d3 and my a7r2 blows away my 5d3 in most departments except for ruggedness, after sales and AF speed.

I now solely use my a7r2 in the studio as the viewfinder, focus peaking and eye AF blows out the 5d3 out of the water.

I think the A7r2 is the perfect size. If i am using a long 2.8 lens, i have the option to add a battery grip which does two things:

  1. Double the battery life
  2. Balance the camera body with a 2.8 lens better

This imo is brilliant for my needs and i hope sony keep pushing along as sooner or later they could overtake canikon in every single way.

Another pro thing people tend to forget is the fact i can use all my canon L lenses on an a7r2!

Literally sony are the ones pushing the camera industry tech and i am enjoying the ride so far
 
jonneymendoza said:
I use both the a7r2 and 5d3 and my a7r2 blows away my 5d3 in most departments except for ruggedness, after sales and AF speed.

I now solely use my a7r2 in the studio as the viewfinder, focus peaking and eye AF blows out the 5d3 out of the water.
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5D3 is a bit older though. Not really fair comparing it to the 3 years newer A7R2.
 
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Steve M said:
5D3 is pretty old now though as a compasion..
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The AF system is still one of the best out there for a DSLR.

It stil has dual card slots and bigger battery life so in terms of my comparison between the two, it still valid for most DSLR's, be it a d810 etc.


Does d5 and 1dx mk2 have eye af yet? IBIS? better DR then sony?

These are things i dont think they have?

I would like to also note that teh current a7 series sony's do have terrible buffer rate especially when pushing 42mp files but for me, this is an easy thing to solve more then increasing the af speed as sony can just dump sd card support and use XCD card i think its called that is faster then CF card and actually designed and invented by sony?


AF will be tricky.

Part of the pros and cons of AF in mirrorless is this:

pros:

You can focus better in low light as u use the lenses apature setting(a DSLR can only go as far as f2.8 and thats if using a f2.8 lens or above)


cons:
If you shoot at f8 on your mirrorless, the AF takes a dive in low light as it is trying to focus with less light going in the sensor.
 
The problem I see with mirrorless is battery life.
Even if mirrorless is smaller and lighter the fact you need a bunch of spare batteries for a days shooting and therefore a larger bag, negates the compactness of the camera and lens.
 
SDK^ said:
The problem I see with mirrorless is battery life.
Even if mirrorless is smaller and lighter the fact you need a bunch of spare batteries for a days shooting and therefore a larger bag, negates the compactness of the camera and lens.
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The batteries are tiny though. you dont need a big bag for it. 3 or 4 batteries could fit inside your pocket.
 
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