Gamers, What's Your Audio Set Up?

[Raymond Lin]

Not bothered about that rabbit hole, not with the power capability of the A80 anyway

I am glad I went with the Xduoo...no chance of changing PSU and there is no RCA in, meaning like a Mac, it limits how I can "upgrade" it. It forces me to use it for a while before changing the whole thing up. I find the limitation liberating and just enjoy the music. Because I know I will get that PSU like you if I got the Fiio lol

 

[mrk]

I like the tinkering aspect, the upgrade paths are all integrated quite well, hence the OpAmp rolling on the A80 and now it delivers power and sound that rivals power amps that are several times more expensive especially being fed by the R2R. Given the R2R is £145, I think an extra £65 on a cleaner power supply still puts the total value in a good place since it's benefitting both the headphones output and being a DAC to the rest of the setup and yet still being considerably smaller in desk space consumed than the kind of VCR sized amps I was using 10+ years ago

Oh also the Comete 40th are now run in nicely run in I think, the low end bass has come out. I've even reset teh tone controls on the A80 now as no need to change anything.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I like the tinkering aspect, the upgrade paths are all integrated quite well, hence the OpAmp rolling on the A80 and now it delivers power and sound that rivals power amps that are several times more expensive especially being fed by the R2R. Given the R2R is £145, I think an extra £65 on a cleaner power supply still puts the total value in a good place since it's benefitting both the headphones output and being a DAC to the rest of the setup and yet still being considerably smaller in desk space consumed than the kind of VCR sized amps I was using 10+ years ago

Oh also the Comete 40th are now run in nicely run in I think, the low end bass has come out. I've even reset teh tone controls on the A80 now as no need to change anything.

I am on the other side now.

I've done the tinkering, it's all behind me now. These days I buy the gear, stop and use it. I am also trying to do stop the whole "overkill" thing. I did this a lot, go for the flagship, or near the flagship then I find myself not utilising anywhere near the potential of them.

I know I would get the PSU for the Fiio though, it's why my Musical Fidelity X-Canv2 have that X-PSU...same thing. I've put the wall plug PSU that it came with back in the box.

So in order to curtail my upgraditis, I get things that doesn't have that path from the get go. I find it I am happier that way. It's not all eliminated though...I still upgrade the cables, because I can!

 

[mrk]

I tend to keep things long term if they last, hence the KEF Q300s from new which lasted 10+ years, or my NAD amps which all failed almost exactly at the end of their warranty which then led me to look at other brands that had that "NAD sound" but not the unreliability. I suppose it's good that happened as I'd probably still have the NADs today and not bother looking at this new range of kit that costs less yet sounds better and is more powerful than the NADs now.

That's the thing, ever since Chi-Fi entered the scene years ago, it's been a steady incline in audio quality and power and these days you can get flagship overkill performance for relatively low money, even adding in in-line component upgrades or modding. The point of diminishing returns has levelled quite a bit which probably explains why so many audiophile sections of the community are now looking at expensive things like EMF isolating power cables or feet for amps that block out resonance (!!) and cost £300 or whatever .

Have you seen people put risers on their speaker cables so the cable isn't resting on the floor which might pick up vibrations/noise off the floor and transmit that to the speakers?! It's mental.

This is probably my limit too as my listening is mostly done at the desktop so what I choose is dictated by the space allowed on or around my desk and I don't care about a dedicated music listening room etc, the living room has a sound bar for the TV, it's good, doesn't need to be anything fancier than that!

 

[Raymond Lin]

Yeah, I am very impress with the Chi-Fi.

When I was in that HiFi shop and see all these brands, £400 this and £800 that (Western brands), and notice myself that nobody online is talking about those! I look at the spec and it's Meh in terms of noise ratio or power output. I know those spec are not be all and end all, but at a glance, on paper, it has fallen behind the competition.

If the Chi-Fi stuff are reliable, then a circuit is just a circuit, there is no special sauce in it.

 

[JasonM]

Considering buying a quieter/linear power supply for the R2R, Fiio PL50 was on the cards :

Edit*

Given that the PL50 costs a lot and isn't actually available right now from the Fiio store, I'm opting for the iFi Power2 instead which seems to do the same job in a conveniently smaller wall adapter package and comes with multiple adapters and voltages:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08Y34B7BQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A2TDGS35ICMVBF&psc=1

I own a couple of those iPower2's in 5v and there an upgrade over the typical cheap PSU's that come boxed with component. The one that's best is the iFi Elite however.

I also own a linear PSU I use to use on an Arcam DAC that was an upgrade also. The takeaway is don't use those cheap wall wart PSU's.

I would have upgraded the power before changing opamps as cleaner power is more important.

 

[mrk]

Yeah I already have seen the benefits of the OpAmps as they upgrade more than what just cleaner power does which is more focused on the transients mostly. Plus the OpAmps, Power Amp and speakers are all loosened up now so ready to see what the cleaner power does.

The Elite is £300, not prepared to drop that on cleaner power when the Mk2 exists at £69

 

[JasonM]

Yeah I already have seen the benefits of the OpAmps as they upgrade more than what just cleaner power does which is more focused on the transients mostly. Plus the OpAmps, Power Amp and speakers are all loosened up now so ready to see what the cleaner power does.

The Elite is £300, not prepared to drop that on cleaner power when the Mk2 exists at £69

I had an audible improvement with the iFi Elite over the iPower2. That said the iPower2 also gave me an upgrade over stock, it's just the Elite was more.

The improvement you get with the iPower2 will depend on the quality of the stock k11's PSU. The manufacture not spending to much money on the stock PSU is not a bad thing, as they expect most people to upgrade them anyway.

I have a Wiim Pro that I use for digital output only and the included PSU is just adequate, honestly Nokia phone chargers are better. I'm on the Wiim Facebook group, and most people upgrade the stock PSU's to one of the iFi's.

 

[mrk]

It just appears to be the normal style 12v 2A power supply, I watched a video before on a channel measuring the power transients and flow quality of several power supplies compared to the iPower 2 and stuff and it was clear just how much smoother the line was on the iPower 2 and that's not even a linear unit whereas the stock switching power supplies had rather high spikes especially towards the 20KHz zone, now that will be beyond my hearing at 16KHz, but the knock on effect is that the overall balance of the soundstage and stuff is affected by those kind of spikes and transients so the mid-range differences and bass extension should be noticed at least.

It is tempting to just get both i2 and Elite and test side by side but it's £300 for a power supply still when the £69 one will still produce better sound than the already good "stock" sound if that makes sense. So an improvement over what is already good for £69 is a decent enough price to explore, my question is if £300 for the Elite is an extra £250+ better than the i2.

 

[JasonM]

but the knock on effect is that the overall balance of the soundstage and stuff is affected by those kind of spikes and transients so the mid-range differences and bass extension should be noticed at least.

Bingo you understand.

Regarding the frequencies that we can't hear, they still have an effect on the audio. So you can have noise on an audio system, you can't hear any hums or pops, however it's still damaging soundstage and resolution, this noise also effects digital clocks that causes jitter. It's these issues that make digital sound digital and not organic like analogue does. This is why people consider records better then CD's, as playback of a record is not effected by noise in the same way. However if you have a noise free system with high quality DAC, then digital outperforms records.

 

[mrk]

And that's where the R2R architecture comes into play, an analogue sound from a DAC coupled with an amp with analogue signature OpAmps is right up my street

Will be interesting to see if I notice the difference with the ipower 2 tomorrow, if not that much then I /may/ explore the Elite or just go for a proper linear power supply and find one of the two Fiio PL50 variants somewhere in stock. The Jade Audio version is the same as the later revision just with a differenc faceplate so not bothered about which one just as long as it's in stock. It costs around £150 on Ali currently.

 

[JasonM]

And that's where the R2R architecture comes into play, an analogue sound from a DAC coupled with an amp with analogue signature OpAmps is right up my street

Will be interesting to see if I notice the difference with the ipower 2 tomorrow, if not that much then I /may/ explore the Elite or just go for a proper linear power supply and find one of the two Fiio PL50 variants somewhere in stock. The Jade Audio version is the same as the later revision just with a differenc faceplate so not bothered about which one just as long as it's in stock. It costs around £150 on Ali currently.

Keep checking on eBay, I paid £160 for my Elite and it came as new boxed, I also paid £40 each for my 2 iPower2's again boxed as new.

The secret is to have a list of thing you want to buy, you need some luck but they often appear at cheaper rates.

The other place to look is Amazon Resale, people return things and they get massively reduced. I've just purchased some Audioquest XLR cables, retail £460, I paid £173! It's the only way of doing it else the hobby will cost to much money.

 

[mrk]

Hmm I've just looked on ebay and this popped up, seems like it's pretty decent, an alt version of the Fiio PL50:

Finished Upgrade Audiophile Linear Power Supply For Ifi Zen Stream DC12V | eBay

Ifi Zen Stream. A MUST Hi-Fi accessories for Audiophile. Output: DC12V. As an alternative, several after market power supplies exist which are usually based on Linear Regulators. Output Current: 1000mA.

www.ebay.co.uk

Thoughts on that?

 

[JasonM]

Hmm I've just looked on ebay and this popped up, seems like it's pretty decent, an alt version of the Fiio PL50:

Finished Upgrade Audiophile Linear Power Supply For Ifi Zen Stream DC12V | eBay

Ifi Zen Stream. A MUST Hi-Fi accessories for Audiophile. Output: DC12V. As an alternative, several after market power supplies exist which are usually based on Linear Regulators. Output Current: 1000mA.

www.ebay.co.uk

Thoughts on that?

I tend to steer clear of brands I don't know, however I own a 12v linear PSU from this company that's Chinese called Teradak and that worked faultless on an Arcam DAC. I did not purchase this PSU but was given it with I got the Arcam DAC. I would do some research on that Chinese brand, but probably ok. One thing on linear PSU's is they run warm when pushed, so you need to spec above your max amps.

TeraDak Audio Electric Company

TeraDak Audio Electric Company

www.teradak.com

 

[mrk]

Hmm. Looks like the Fiio PL50 is on eBay so will bookmark that, if the iPower 2 doesn't impress then will just order the PL50 as that is known to work perfectly with the K11 R2R and it's a well known well respected linear unit.

One thing that is clear is that good switching PSUs are way better than bad linear PSUs, and vice versa too. So linear isn't especially the end-game for power, switching can be just as good as you can get cheap tat on both sides of that bridge. That ebay linear I linked to uses the same sealed transformer as the PL50, though the other components are not known so I doubt they are the same too as some of the PL50 bits are custom to Fiio. I think the safest bet is stick to the Fiio if the iPower2 isn't up to preference.

 

[JasonM]

Hmm. Looks like the Fiio PL50 is on eBay so will bookmark that, if the iPower 2 doesn't impress then will just order the PL50 as that is known to work perfectly with the K11 R2R and it's a well known well respected linear unit.

One thing that is clear is that good switching PSUs are way better than bad linear PSUs, and vice versa too. So linear isn't especially the end-game for power, switching can be just as good as you can get cheap tat on both sides of that bridge. That ebay linear I linked to uses the same sealed transformer as the PL50, though the other components are not known so I doubt they are the same too as some of the PL50 bits are custom to Fiio. I think the safest bet is stick to the Fiio if the iPower2 isn't up to preference.

The iPower2 will give a good upgrade over the budget PSU's. The other advantage is i'm assuming it won't inject any noise back into your mains block to effect other audio. BTW your computer should not be on the same mains block as your DAC / amp etc.

Not sure if this helps, but Hans Beekhuyzen compared PSU's, he's testing on a Wiim Pro Plus, but it's same sort of thing.

 

[mrk]

Impossible to not have the PC on its own mains outlet because of the location of sockets in the room, so a higher-end rail bar (made in UK!!!!) was added to satisfy power needs. The PC's power regulation is fairly decent though, HX100i PSU that is rarely laboured, if ever actually. With or without a rail from the wall socket, I don't know just how much of a difference having the PC on its own socket makes because behind the wall faceplate, they are all connecting to the house grid via the same run of power cable through the walls anyway, so rail or not, everything goes via those wires back to the RCD.

So a lower noise higher quality power supply for the DAC would clean out any transients from the house wiring which I am sure there is some as it's decades old wiring in these walls.

 

[JasonM]

Impossible to not have the PC on its own mains outlet because of the location of sockets in the room, so a higher-end rail bar (made in UK!!!!) was added to satisfy power needs. The PC's power regulation is fairly decent though, HX100i PSU that is rarely laboured, if ever actually. With or without a rail from the wall socket, I don't know just how much of a difference having the PC on its own socket makes because behind the wall faceplate, they are all connecting to the house grid via the same run of power cable through the walls anyway, so rail or not, everything goes via those wires back to the RCD.

So a lower noise higher quality power supply for the DAC would clean out any transients from the house wiring which I am sure there is some as it's decades old wiring in these walls.

I was referring to the mains extension, do you have everything coming from wall sockets?

 

[mrk]

No as there are only 2 wall sockets in that entire wall so am using the extension rail and the 2nd socket gos round the side where some other equipment is plugged into a smaller extension.

 

[JasonM]

That extension rail has a order of priority on it.

The plugs near where the cable comes in have the priority, so you want your most sensitive component (your case the DAC) on the first plug.

If you put a power amp on the first socket it creates a dip that will effect everything else behind it, especially the sensitive DAC.

This is why the good audiophile mains blocks are star wired internally as each socket has even power.

The PC should really be on it's own mains extension (away from the audio), but you can't do this as you don't have the wall sockets.

The problem with the PC is it injects noise back into the mains block. It also takes power from the mains block that will impede the rest of the components that are sharing that block.

The only thing you can do is put your most sensitive gear (the DAC) on the first socket.