Gamers, What's Your Audio Set Up?
- Thread starter Random Guy Esq.
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Slightly longer post sorry but useful info!
On headfi it seems the dev team are active as I posted a bug last night and this morning there was a firmware update fixing it, was the display brightness at medium level emitting a coil-whine like noise that I could hear
Not entirely, that Denon linked is deeper at 33cm, the X9 is 20cm and sits shorter too in height., Just highlights how compact the K11R2R, A80 and Toppings etc are, or were as the new Toppings are more X9 sized I guess too like the D90 III Discrete.
Thoughts on the X9 vs K11 R2R...
As a DAC feeding the power amp for passive speakers:
It's very very close between both DACs acting purely as DACs, this is great as it highlights just how good the K11 R2R's DAC is, which in turn is noticeably more pleasing the musical than the DAC built into the A80 and others I have had over the years. There's a more refined stereo image here with the soundstage being similar. It's subtle when using the bypass mode to get a direct feed from the DAC without any filtering etc, but if you disable bypass then you can then tweak everything and save a custom preset, even expanding the soundstage to be as narrow or as wide as you want depending on your speakers. I left it on bypass mode when in DAC only use as i like the default sound through these speakers.
Seems to have paired really well with my speakers in combo with the power amp + OpAmps installed in that.
Is it £850 better a DAC than the K11 R2R? No! Would i pay the premium for the additional features if I had the K11 R2R and was happy? No!
But if I had different speakers that benefitted from the EQ customisation, then it opens up the prospect of unlocking the speaker capabilities that another DAC would otherwise be restricting, and some may find that this warrants the upgrade cost in this context.
I have been using £6 balanced XLR to TRS cables for this use instead of RCA as the K11 R2R is RCAing to the power amp which gave me easy A/B testing.
Here is a demo of the soundstage adjustment happening in realtime, I used stereo mics to record this so you should hear the change quite clearly on both speakers and headphones:
As a headphones amp:
Both balanced headphone outputs have the same power, so I just kept the 4.4mm cable I have already instead of getting an XLR headphones cable. With bypass enabled both the K11 R2R and X9 once again sound very similar, some subtle differences in volume when both are set to the same value on the dial, as well as some higher frequency difference but only minor, like "S" has a bit more of a recess on the X9 whereas on the K11 R2R it's brighter in OS mode, slightly less so on NOS mode.
Enabling the HP-EQ and choosing a preset --I opted for the HMS one highlighted here...
... is when it became obvious where the additional cost of something like this has gone. The Arya Stealth now had a lot more fuller body to the sound, bass was deeper and richer but not artificially so, mid range and general instrument separation was more refined as well. Any decent headphone scales will with better amps as you move up the class and I kind of expected an improvement but not to this degree.
Turn off HP-EQ and it's back to normal and only a small improvement over the K11 R2R. So it's clear that the HP-EQ is meant to be used to get the best out of one of the 2500+ headphones stored in its EQ database, you can also go in and fine tune the EQ even more and save a custom one if you want a narrower/wider soundstage or whatever else etc.
I also like the self calibration check it does for impedance when you plug in headphones, there's a manual gain setting to choose if you want, but the auto self check thing does it fine anyway depending on the headphones plugged in:
The only annoyance currently is that if I disconnect the headphones, then the HP-EQ toggle remains active and for some reason the EQ applies to both XLR and RCA outputs. I have made the devs aware of this and they are investigating so I suspect a new FW update will be released soon to correct this. In the meantime I need to go in to the menu (GIF above) and toggle it off manually when not using headphones and just using it as a DAC.
As a piece of kit sitting on the desk, looking at it, interacting with it etc:
The materials used and its >3KG weight are quite substantial looking and feeling. The volume knob has weight to it like on my A80 which I am a fan of, and the sound the R2R relays makes when adjusting the volume is kinda cool:
Assuming they don't ask for this back, then yeah it's going to replace the K11 R2R for me. Long term it has all the inputs I could ever need. I also like the feed-level EQ/VU meters. I have it set to the graphical EQ as it shows a wide frequency range when sounds are coming through. The display has a 60Hz refresh rate but the pacing of the animation is super smooth which is nice, and unlike on the A80 where the graphical meters are based on the volume level of the power amp which means the graphics don't move much if the volume is set to anything below medium.
On headfi it seems the dev team are active as I posted a bug last night and this morning there was a firmware update fixing it, was the display brightness at medium level emitting a coil-whine like noise that I could hear
Not entirely, that Denon linked is deeper at 33cm, the X9 is 20cm and sits shorter too in height., Just highlights how compact the K11R2R, A80 and Toppings etc are, or were as the new Toppings are more X9 sized I guess too like the D90 III Discrete.
Thoughts on the X9 vs K11 R2R...
As a DAC feeding the power amp for passive speakers:
It's very very close between both DACs acting purely as DACs, this is great as it highlights just how good the K11 R2R's DAC is, which in turn is noticeably more pleasing the musical than the DAC built into the A80 and others I have had over the years. There's a more refined stereo image here with the soundstage being similar. It's subtle when using the bypass mode to get a direct feed from the DAC without any filtering etc, but if you disable bypass then you can then tweak everything and save a custom preset, even expanding the soundstage to be as narrow or as wide as you want depending on your speakers. I left it on bypass mode when in DAC only use as i like the default sound through these speakers.
Seems to have paired really well with my speakers in combo with the power amp + OpAmps installed in that.
Is it £850 better a DAC than the K11 R2R? No! Would i pay the premium for the additional features if I had the K11 R2R and was happy? No!
But if I had different speakers that benefitted from the EQ customisation, then it opens up the prospect of unlocking the speaker capabilities that another DAC would otherwise be restricting, and some may find that this warrants the upgrade cost in this context.
I have been using £6 balanced XLR to TRS cables for this use instead of RCA as the K11 R2R is RCAing to the power amp which gave me easy A/B testing.
Here is a demo of the soundstage adjustment happening in realtime, I used stereo mics to record this so you should hear the change quite clearly on both speakers and headphones:
As a headphones amp:
Both balanced headphone outputs have the same power, so I just kept the 4.4mm cable I have already instead of getting an XLR headphones cable. With bypass enabled both the K11 R2R and X9 once again sound very similar, some subtle differences in volume when both are set to the same value on the dial, as well as some higher frequency difference but only minor, like "S" has a bit more of a recess on the X9 whereas on the K11 R2R it's brighter in OS mode, slightly less so on NOS mode.
Enabling the HP-EQ and choosing a preset --I opted for the HMS one highlighted here...
... is when it became obvious where the additional cost of something like this has gone. The Arya Stealth now had a lot more fuller body to the sound, bass was deeper and richer but not artificially so, mid range and general instrument separation was more refined as well. Any decent headphone scales will with better amps as you move up the class and I kind of expected an improvement but not to this degree.
Turn off HP-EQ and it's back to normal and only a small improvement over the K11 R2R. So it's clear that the HP-EQ is meant to be used to get the best out of one of the 2500+ headphones stored in its EQ database, you can also go in and fine tune the EQ even more and save a custom one if you want a narrower/wider soundstage or whatever else etc.
I also like the self calibration check it does for impedance when you plug in headphones, there's a manual gain setting to choose if you want, but the auto self check thing does it fine anyway depending on the headphones plugged in:
The only annoyance currently is that if I disconnect the headphones, then the HP-EQ toggle remains active and for some reason the EQ applies to both XLR and RCA outputs. I have made the devs aware of this and they are investigating so I suspect a new FW update will be released soon to correct this. In the meantime I need to go in to the menu (GIF above) and toggle it off manually when not using headphones and just using it as a DAC.
As a piece of kit sitting on the desk, looking at it, interacting with it etc:
The materials used and its >3KG weight are quite substantial looking and feeling. The volume knob has weight to it like on my A80 which I am a fan of, and the sound the R2R relays makes when adjusting the volume is kinda cool:
Assuming they don't ask for this back, then yeah it's going to replace the K11 R2R for me. Long term it has all the inputs I could ever need. I also like the feed-level EQ/VU meters. I have it set to the graphical EQ as it shows a wide frequency range when sounds are coming through. The display has a 60Hz refresh rate but the pacing of the animation is super smooth which is nice, and unlike on the A80 where the graphical meters are based on the volume level of the power amp which means the graphics don't move much if the volume is set to anything below medium.
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Caporegime
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looks like a beast but not sure i like that clicky knob though and poor K11 lol
Caporegime
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I wished it is smaller. Simply no space on my desk and way overkill for my need as well....Just want that UV meter 
Sounds great. That would be true endgame-tier for me. Actually scratch that it's beyond endgame, whatever that's called. That's 4 or 5 times the price of my best headphone (HD 650/6XX)!
Having done quite of research on DAC/AMPs in the last week, it does seem a lot of stuff is using built-in software and LCD/OLED display so that software can be used for more than just basic controls, i.e. EQ as you've shown off.
Caporegime
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I swear my Xduoo which is Class A doesn't get that warm....I don't have a thermal camera but I have a IR sensor laser gun thing. Compare to my Mac mini, which gets to about 37/38c on the top....the Xduoo is NOT that.
Peeps, if I wanted to move away from motherboard audio, what do I need? A USB DAC? It would need optical out as I would have it going to my powernode which is where my speakers are attached. I don't fully understand what bit of kit I would need to get audio from the PC to the powernode if I didn't use the motherboard audio. 
Caporegime
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That is 1 one aspect I try to stay away from. I am a fan of buttons and direct inputs. Things behind menus fustrates me and slows me down to change things. (I could for example log in my new keyboard using VIA to map a couple of buttons....probably take 5mins but I am too lazy so those buttons current does nothing).
I also don't want more complicated things, one could call it more in-depth or more features or MORE STUFF but I rather have something that does exactly what I want well, without all the other stuff.
I bought my Niche Zero coffee grinder for £500 because it has just 1 switch, it's not even an electronic membrane switch but a physical metal toggle. There is no screen, everything is very mechanical. There is just an LED showing when it's plugged in, that's it.
I bought my HE6 13 years ago having had a disastrous flirtation with the Audeze LCD2
Originally powered by a Primare A30.1 via a Melodius MXU8
Now go via a Matrix SPDIF 2 and powered by the more managable Burson 3xp
The Abrahamsen V6 DAC has been a constant
Originally powered by a Primare A30.1 via a Melodius MXU8
Now go via a Matrix SPDIF 2 and powered by the more managable Burson 3xp
The Abrahamsen V6 DAC has been a constant
^^^ That's pretty top-tier!
Yeah definitely overkill, but I'd say it's also good value for money when compared against its competition, for example Topping has the A70 Pro which is similar in features as a headphones amp, including the R2R volume controller architecture, but it is purely a headphones amp, so even though it is £500, you need a DAC, and then a power amp if you are connecting passive speakers, that quickly brings the price towards X9 territory at which point you may as well just get something like this.
There are other brands too though of course, but do they offer the same level of OTT customisation? Not from what I've seen so far. I guess SMSL might be close enough, and Eversolo obviously is the sister brand under the Zidoo umbrella, the X9 is basically an Eversolo A8 just smaller and without the streamer built in and full dev time given to the headphones section.
Back in the day my NAD C 325 Bee which was the size of a BETAMAX player used to get extremely hot too and if you opened up one of those you would see a lot of open space and simple design, yet the components just got hot when in use so I think it's just part of what it is in this sort of config.
The Powernode has USB input right? Which means you won't need a DAC as it already is a DAC as well as amp/streamer. Just connect a USB-A to A cable from PC to the node and Windows will see it as a DAC, you then bypass any mobo audio chain and you can disable it in the BIOS. You are not losing anything by using the mobo's optical out though, it's isolated from any electrical noise with it being optical and offers the same level of sound as USB. As long as you are not enabling some mobo audio features like spatial sound or EQ etc then the optical out will be pure. Just keep Windows master volume at max and control master volume from the node if it has volume control (never used one so no idea lol).
I only like touchscreen interfaces if they are quick to interact with. On the X9 it's very quick as shown so it's not a bother that the only physical button is the power button which also acts as mute. There is a remote control of course, as well as a web browser interface and smartphone app so there are multiple ways to change settings if needs be but the most often used functions, HP-EQ, bypass mode and source input are just a couple of swipes and taps away.
Yeah definitely overkill, but I'd say it's also good value for money when compared against its competition, for example Topping has the A70 Pro which is similar in features as a headphones amp, including the R2R volume controller architecture, but it is purely a headphones amp, so even though it is £500, you need a DAC, and then a power amp if you are connecting passive speakers, that quickly brings the price towards X9 territory at which point you may as well just get something like this.
There are other brands too though of course, but do they offer the same level of OTT customisation? Not from what I've seen so far. I guess SMSL might be close enough, and Eversolo obviously is the sister brand under the Zidoo umbrella, the X9 is basically an Eversolo A8 just smaller and without the streamer built in and full dev time given to the headphones section.
Back in the day my NAD C 325 Bee which was the size of a BETAMAX player used to get extremely hot too and if you opened up one of those you would see a lot of open space and simple design, yet the components just got hot when in use so I think it's just part of what it is in this sort of config.
Peeps, if I wanted to move away from motherboard audio, what do I need? A USB DAC? It would need optical out as I would have it going to my powernode which is where my speakers are attached. I don't fully understand what bit of kit I would need to get audio from the PC to the powernode if I didn't use the motherboard audio.
The Powernode has USB input right? Which means you won't need a DAC as it already is a DAC as well as amp/streamer. Just connect a USB-A to A cable from PC to the node and Windows will see it as a DAC, you then bypass any mobo audio chain and you can disable it in the BIOS. You are not losing anything by using the mobo's optical out though, it's isolated from any electrical noise with it being optical and offers the same level of sound as USB. As long as you are not enabling some mobo audio features like spatial sound or EQ etc then the optical out will be pure. Just keep Windows master volume at max and control master volume from the node if it has volume control (never used one so no idea lol).
I only like touchscreen interfaces if they are quick to interact with. On the X9 it's very quick as shown so it's not a bother that the only physical button is the power button which also acts as mute. There is a remote control of course, as well as a web browser interface and smartphone app so there are multiple ways to change settings if needs be but the most often used functions, HP-EQ, bypass mode and source input are just a couple of swipes and taps away.
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Peeps, if I wanted to move away from motherboard audio, what do I need? A USB DAC? It would need optical out as I would have it going to my powernode which is where my speakers are attached. I don't fully understand what bit of kit I would need to get audio from the PC to the powernode if I didn't use the motherboard audio.
You could, but what's the driver here? i.e. just to remove the requirement for on-board audio, or to improve audio quality in some way (i.e. use nice headphones with a headphone DAC/AMP?)
It looks like the Powernode is a multi-room streaming box/system that includes Optical Inputs?
Caporegime
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Lol, that's what i mean...you are not selling it to me....remote...fine, it's physical button....but web interface? I need a computer with a browser? and then an App?
No no no...more features then more things to go wrong. It's not about I don't have to use it if I don't want to, but if it's there, and then later down the line I can't connect to it...lets say they stop supporting the app (yet everything else works), then I would consider something has broken...I rather it never came with those things I never use in the first place.
Screen fine, remote fine, knob....all I need.
You don't need to use those other methods, they simply exist if you want to. Having options is never a bad thing. The likelihood one interface goes wrong is very slim, just like physical buttons that fail is also very slim, but never zero.
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Yea, it's a balance. Tbh I prefer buttons and switches too.
No, I suspect not, as you mention. Just seems to have gone from buttons/switches to displays for information, then to displays you can interact with, to now getting more advanced software where you can do parametric EQ and other advanced settings (like community EQ etc.). There is obviously a demand for that sort of customisation and it feels to me like there's a trend (maybe developing) towards it. I imagine the tech for small displays and touchscreens has gotten so cheap and that helps too.
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Caporegime
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No...I am one of those people that just don't want it...I have avoided things because it has an app interface...like certain coffee gear, like scales....why do I need an app to weigh my coffee beans!? It could be used without the app but the fact that it has one....NOPE! Stop spending your budget on things that I don't need...
It's to do with where the industry is going and I try not support people who do that...if possible.
If it is the only way to control the unit, that's fine (like home security cameras, all app base), but spending money on multiple input method, when there is a phyiscal option already, it's a pet peeve, major one of mine.
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Soldato
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Some things it's needed, like a streamer. Although LCD and app plus navigation (or touchscreen) and IR remote is desireable.
I dislike my Wiim as it lacks IR control. And the device has to be setup via the app.
Personally I don't think it's that big of a deal, we are in a time where these things are super stable and quick. If it was say 5 years ago then things would have been different but tech advances fairly quickly and those interfaces get better and cheaper to actually be usable. Some of the stuff we're talking about here like the HP-EQ or even full scale parametric EQs on other DACs can only be done through an interface, there is no way around a complex system like that, so let's be thankful that the devs of these things implement them properly and we have OTA updates to improve them further, something that can't be done with traditional solutions!
The X9 essentially has a 1080p tablet on a small LCD panel with model capacitive touch performance. Heck it even has a full onscreen keyboard if you need to input text lol like connecting to the WiFi or saving a custom EQ.
Yeah the trend is the main thing and cost of entry for cheap but high performance touch displays. In the past remeber when devices had laggy touchscreens, especially in car nav screens etc? Those were the days
The X9 essentially has a 1080p tablet on a small LCD panel with model capacitive touch performance. Heck it even has a full onscreen keyboard if you need to input text lol like connecting to the WiFi or saving a custom EQ.
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Caporegime
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I prefer to compartmentalise things, so self contained things, don't need a phone to use it, even better if it lacks the ability to be able to control it with a phone. Self-contained...Like I dislike external PSU, I want a Kettle lead straight into the back for example.