Gamers, What's Your Audio Set Up?

OMG that’s the best yet…I feel like I got ripped off lol
Well I have to wait until late July! Also I can't see any mention of Import Duty on their site so I might get hit with that.

I am going to try this one and see how I get on. Then decide (once the GadgetryTech Review is out in a couple of weeks) whether to upgrade to the Luxsin.
 
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"analogue in character"

The PA7 which I have also listened to is soooooooo far from analogue sounding it's unreal, I genuinely wonder if you need an hearing test or your brain just convinces you of this stuff, the PA7 is absolutely neutral, transparent, and uncoloured, some would even say neutral/lean, especially being that it is class D and also from Topping, Confirmation bias 101.
 
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It is not completely transparent, even the usual big audiophile reviewers mention this in their reviews. Funnily enough I have actually had a proper hearing test (unrelated to amps....) so maybe it's your ears that need testing? :p

Let's see what the manufacturer says about it shall we:

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Interesting, if it's so transparent then there is no need to produce a cleaner and deeper sound, these features are indicative of a warmer sound output typically, this blurb neatly matches what other reviewers have found, too.

My note on it being analogue in character has been misread/understood by you it seems. I'm from the old NAD analogue amp days and this sounds more like those than previous Toppings I have had, just now minus the noise floor hiss typical of analogue only amps from back then. They too are smooth and warm, just like now. Perhaps the speakers you listened on were not up to being decently paired with the PA7 you listened to, the Comete 40th resolve a lot of detail but are a happy pairing with smooth/warm amps.

You recommended the Creek, it looked good on paper, I bought it because the only way to know if something is good is to actually use it properly. It was rubbish sounding with many bugs as stated in that comment earlier in the thread and nothing like what has been said about it online. You didn't like my criticism of the 4040 A citing that maybe it just wasn't for me along with some other excuses which is quite laughable when the model has objective bugs in its features and interface, which I even documented on video lol. It took a reddit comment later to realise that for reasons unknown, Creek chose to use old Infineon Merus chipset (implementation is not known obviously so no doubt the rest of the DAC stage is good and custom, but old tech is still old tech...) yet price it like new tech.

SMSL used the same chips previously and whilst they measured well, didn't do too well for sound. And this in turn starts connecting the dots on why the 4040 A sounded poor compared to what I've been used to all these years, and raises questions as to why the handful of reviews about it online didn't even touch on the bugs I've documented, maybe they didn't care to look for them or even pay attention to them. One of your earlier comments remarked that noise floor hiss was normal, it is not normal, none of the class D amps I have owned to date other than the 4040 A has had any noise floor hiss with any source or at any volume level on any speaker I have paired them with.

e* typo correction.
 
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The old NAD amps had a 'typical' analogue character, I think that is universally excepted as such, the PA7 sounds dramatically different from that leaning towards strong neutrally and transparency, if you genuinely think the PA7 sounds warm and smooth you need to re-evaluate your career path in audio, I have evaluated many amps of different topologies, I have colleagues and friends with 20-30k systems, I also have extensive experience with gear of all price price ranges, you have owned a couple of cheap amps/chi-amps and some basic low cost speakers and spam multiple forums and reddits channels with your incessant dribble talking as though your coming from a position of authority and experience, and by making that statement I'm not critiquing 'cheap' audio, not in todays world, I'm more alluding to your lack of experience.

I'm actually genuinely glad that with your progression into reviewing more products now and with manufactures sending you gear you'll gain more experience and a more balanced perspective rather than sipping from only the 'chi-fi' golden chalice, I personally do critique a lot of 'Chi-Fi brands and think they still have a long way to go in terms of quality control overall and after care support but I still like a lot of what they do and it has helped in some avenues push the market forward, I think both western and Chi-Fi brands have their place for different reasons.

Regarding the Creek amp, I accepted that it had issues and even said that it's obviously not for you, and some of your criticisms were valid (although a volume number not going to 100!?), I said it shouldn't have an audible noise floor, especially being that it's also pitched as a desktop amp, you see that's where I'm different from you, I have the ability to own and critique a product, and like it at the same time, it doesn't have to be perfect.

One area where I personally thought the Creek did perform well was in it's staging and imaging and resolution, now does that mean it's better than everything else, no, I don't do what you do and spam every forum with your choices being better than everything else on the market in desperate need for choice validation, it's petulant and quite frankly annoying, I've already came across multiple instances of you love bombing the PA7 also at the same time trying to 'poo poo' conventional hi-fi brands and right them off completely because you've found the 'perfect' component, which is what you do, narcissistically and subtly put down over components on purpose and try and big up your preferences, and sadly I don't think you're even aware that you do it, that's the crazy thing.

"The soundstage, bass detail and imaging come together like I hear in the Arya Stealth though minus that planar bass extension obviously"

Again, if you think it comes to together the same as your speakers then something is seriously wrong, your speakers will blow the socks of nearly headphone out there (outside of sub-bass), I'm not sure if your actually aware of the this but speakers in general are of an order of magnitude better than headphones in terms of soundstage and imaging, and I say that as a headphone nut myself, this is mainly due to being about to hear both left and right channels at the same time from both your left and right ears as opposed to having them completely separate as you do on headphones, this is what gives you that centre imaging quality on speakers and instrument panning from left to right when set up correctly.

The only time I've heard headphones compare well in this respect is with high quality binaural recordings where the sound is recorded in such a way that it is emulating the listening experience from your own ears which then your brain is able to position the audio more accurately as it does in real life, we only have two ears, but uniquely we can pin-point audio in a 3D space around us, speakers are able to perform this much better, now cross-feed is a feature that is supposed to 'help' with this by bleeding the left and right channels in headphones but unfortunately it doesn't perform anywhere near the same, it's still fundamentally a headphone vs speakers in real 3D space comparisons, even headphones like the HD800S which I think have some of the best sound-staging in the world still don't come close.


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"Interesting, if it's so transparent then there is no need to produce a cleaner and deeper sound, these features are indicative of a warmer sound output typically, this blurb neatly matches what other reviewers have found, too."

Ok, I nearly spat my tea out genuinely, my monitor is not amused, this is not alluding to a "warm sound', but 'deeper' in terms of depth of the sound which is what they are saying is a consequence of the transparency (low distortion) of the amp, transparency of course gives you a cleaner sound, seriously, you have a ways to go, as I've said in the past, slow down and learn to walk before you can run.
 
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The old NAD amps had a 'typical' analogue character, I think that is universally excepted as such, the PA7 sounds dramatically different from that leaning towards strong neutrally and transparency, if you genuinely think the PA7 sounds warm and smooth you need to re-evaluate your career path in audio, I have evaluated many amps of different topologies, I have colleagues and friends with 20-30k systems, I also have extensive experience with gear of all price price ranges, you have owned a couple of cheap amps/chi-amps and some basic low cost speakers and spam multiple forums and reddits channels with your incessant dribble talking as though your coming from a position of authority a...

None of this really matters now because not once but multiple times you have criticised my hearing and most recently above asked if I need a hearing test lol. I trust my hearing more than my vision, and I'm a photographer by profession. If I didn't trust my ears then I wouldn't be on this forum and still be happy with Soundblaster xyz for workstation audio. Like I said many times already, if i want to try to see what else is out there that might be better, I just buy it and try it out for myself as not all reviews tell what's what, and I notice details in things (both good and bad) that others do not, it's why the X9 currently has a list of updates in recent firmwares that are thanks to my direct feedback, or why games controllers have been reworked by a couple of brands based on stuff I found that no other reviews spotted and so on.

You also previously questioned my desire to want to try out new stuff instead of just sticking ot what I have and being happy with that because apparently the time between getting one thing to wanting to try something else was too short, I didn't realise there was a recognised interval to which people had to adhere to before getting the desire to check something new out and keep it or return it after doing so.

The reality is you have misread or misunderstood comments because you're going under the impression that it's just the usual audiophile forums nonsense or something, so you end up only seeing what you want to see, and then get called up on it like before.

Also why do you keep referring to chi-fi with the negative undertone, this is like the 5th time i have seen you say it, as if to say that the Chinese brands are incapable of producing something good compared to the more established western brands, who, as it turns out, can produce some rubbish.

I will just continue as I always have done, try new stuff whether bought or sent, and share that experience as a regular user of that stuff. That's how it's always been and will remain.

Sorry for being blunt, but this is the trend I've noticed in recent times not just here but with others on other boards too.


Just add a measurement graph X and Y axis somewhere and that's ASR forums covered too.
 
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"The reality is you have misread or misunderstood comments because you're going under the impression that it's just the usual audiophile forums nonsense or something, so you end up only seeing what you want to see, and then get called up on it like before."

You've already clearly shown proof that the misunderstanding is on your part, you didn't understand a simple audio terminology in terms of 'deeper sounding' in the context of transparency and low distortion, it shows undeniably that you have been reading reviews and misinterpreting what they are trying to convey thinking that they meant 'warmer analogue sound character' which I personally believe has created a conformation bias with the device, you hear what you want to hear, I think that the PA7 is a brilliant amp for the price and what it does, but, yet again they are known to have some issues, same with the PA5 which was known to be failing after a few months, this has happened with topping more times than I can count honestly, same the Topping L30 which got so bad they had to issue a recall as they are burning out!!

"I trust my hearing more than my vision, and I'm a photographer by profession."

What a strange comment down playing your photography skills! By my judgement your photography skills are infinitely better than your comprehension of audio (thus far), I can confidently say you are good at photography and the fact that it's your profession speaks towards that.

"You also previously questioned my desire to want to try out new stuff instead of just sticking ot what I have and being happy with that because apparently the time between getting one thing to wanting to try something else was too short, I didn't realise there was a recognised interval to which people had to adhere to before getting the desire to check something new out and keep it or return it after doing so."

I have never questioned your desire to try new stuff, that would be ridiculous, I've previously just said slow down a bit only to be able to digest the gear your testing and get to know it, a prime example would be your writing a 4k word review on the Luxsin X9 after only receiving it a couple of days prior to that, no I don't believe that is a not long enough to write a comprehensive review on a product like the X9 with it's feature set, and also acclimatise yourself with the sound, it takes time to get used to a new sound signature, general rule of thumb is usually a week to a month.

Let me give you an example, https://mashable.com/ less tech focused than https://www.neowin.net/ but you could arguably say that are competing with each other, here is how mashable, a non-audiophile site tests headphones,

"When testing, to get the best sense of which headphones can actually be great to use in everyday life, we do exactly that — use them in our everyday lives. Typically, we test headphones from a week to up to a month. In our approach, we combine standardized testing that you might find in a lab with using the headphones and earbuds around our homes and outside in the cities we live in to determine which headphones are actually the best."

And that's a pretty basic site to be fair, and even they take their time.

Yes there is a slight negative overtone regarding Chinese brands, and I've clearly been open why in my last post, a lot of these companies still have yet to establish and prove themselves long term, some are getting there though like Hiby, Fiio, Xduoo Denafrips etc, I love those brands and others, but overall they still have a way to go particularly where quality control in concerned (amps like Fosi V3 burning up), Topping amps also, as you recently discovered when researching the LA90 power amp, and after sales support to, long term support in particular, rather than just milking a cash cow by spitting out different amp and dac's all the time with minor iterative updates, there's something to be said for a component that can last decades and is supported for decades also.

B&W for example make mass produced speakers, nothing crazy special or better than other brands, but when I rang them up for a tweeter from a centre speaker that was 20 years old (LCR6 S3) they sent one out next day with an invoice to pay after the fact, The chap on the phone said they keep spares from a lot of their earliest speakers and said to me it's always worth ringing up for parts

When the control panel fascia on my (at the time 25 year old) Rotel RCD-965BX CD player broke, to my amazement they sent me one out free of charge! I have multiple instances of this over the years, as I've stated previously this is what an established brand is sometimes able to do, and there is value in that, also for some of us there is a sense of pride that we here in the UK birthed a lot of these hi-fi brands and audio engineering, they have genuine prestige and history born from humble beginnings, am I saying you have to go down the 'conventional' hi-fi route yourself, no of course not, but try to at least understand and appreciate what these 'old school' guys have contributed to the hi-fi world, they are established for a reason.
 
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I hadn't heard about fosi v3 amps burning up, now you've got me worried about mine.
Sound wise though most of the chifi class d amps including the pa7, a80 and the fosi v3 etc use the same tpa 3255 chip as far as I'm aware so I can't imagine the differences between them are overly significant. Obviously they could be implemented poorly which would make a difference but none of the reviews seem to indicate thats the case.
I do agree though about the point around taking time to get used to something new, with the k11 r2r it took a few weeks of only using that device in my daily listening for me to start to notice things repeatedly and be able to form firm conclusions after then pulling the old dac out for comparison again. Over that time period I was able to notice a lot that I was blind to in my initial few hours session of AB testing when I first received it.
 
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I think we should just call it a notion to agree to disagree on some of these bits as it's not really resolving anything!

I hadn't heard about fosi v3 amps burning up, now you've got me worried about mine.
Sound wise though most of the chifi class d amps including the pa7, a80 and the fosi v3 etc use the same tpa 3255 chip as far as I'm aware so I can't imagine the differences between them are overly significant. Obviously they could be implemented poorly which would make a difference but none of the reviews seem to indicate thats the case.
I do agree though about the point around taking time to get used to something new, with the k11 r2r it took a few weeks of only using that device in my daily listening for me to start to notice things repeatedly and be able to form firm conclusions after then pulling the old dac out for comparison again. Over that time period I was able to notice a lot that I was blind to in my initial few hours session of AB testing when I first received it.

Chifi reliability issues are not exclusive to them though remember, British brands have had their fair share of failures, I have owned only NAD and Rotel amps before moving to Class D with the short dabble with Cambridge Audio only to be disgusted by the sound and going back to NAD. I've mentioned it before, but my C325 Bee had a failing transformer which NAD at the time were happy to fix out of warranty as it was a new thing for them to experience so wanted ot use mine as a case study internally. The engineer doing the work contacted me directly to get this done. Likewise people even on here have commented on Schitt's unrealiability and the need to have a UK reseller should one need to return something because of that. I think people forget this because of the sheer flooding by the Asian brands.

Yeah I've had a Topping fail within a few weeks of buying, but that's about it and that was the DX3 Pro+, a known headphone amp that has documented other issues but I still bought it as people raved about its sound.

Meanwhile all of my NAD class D amps failed or went dodgy outside of warranty, all 3 of them, The D 3020 v1, D 7050, D 3045. Issues that accumulated to weird noises when adjusting volume, clicking sounds, volume attenuation issues, fading LEDs, complete power failure, side panels that went sticky, OLED front panel burn-in.

Anyways, my listening isn't just a couple of hours here and there every other day, I have and will still listen for an entire day non stop going back and forth like I did when I got the X9 in and was comparing against the K11 R2R, a sound I am very familiar with now. I sit at my desktop almost all day 7 days a week as I work from home and then do my writing and editing from the same desk in the evenings, and whenever I am sat here music is playing and I'm listening with focus whilst editing with muscle memory etc.

Anyway enough of all that, current observations is how warm the PA7 runs, expected that though given it has a 48V power supply, the PA7 Plus has a 65W one so must run even hotter. I measured 46 degrees at the hottest point vs the X9's 38-41 variance.

In other news, the X9 got a new FW update today which implemented some of my recent feedback, namely the volume overlay interrupting VU screens that should not have an overlay as they already show the volume clearly:



We already had output settings memory added with last week's update and now you can also output both RCA and XLR at the same time. The range of features and sound quality for the price is very impressive, will be really interesting to see what the DX5 II offers at it's <£300 price.
 
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Googling it, it seems like the failures might be related to the 48v supply and thermal issues maybe. Shouldn't be an issue for me in that case, im using a lower voltage as I don't need all that power. With the 32v supply it runs cooler than my dac/headphone amp to the touch.
 
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Which explains why the Aiyima A80 has an aggressive 5 min auto standby mode with no way to turn it off I guess. Thankfully it has a sub 1 second wakeup time on signal resume so no delay. The X9 has a customisable standby timer though it has a custom internal linear power supply so doesn't really matter. The PA7 has the 48v external though and sleeps via 12v trigger from the DAC.
 
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The a80 is physically a lot larger aswell so I imagine it has a better thermal management solution. Same for the pa7 aswell.
 
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A80 is smaller than the PA7 and I measured average 47 degrees at the hottest point!

PA7 has more ventilation though but is also sitting on top of a warm DAC although I have raised it's height by 1cm to give additional airflow space. Will need longer XLR cables if I want the PA7 beside it like I did the A80 though.
 
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Though some of the stuff on the US site were not always in stock on the UK site or the same price if I recall?
 
Correct. Pretty much everything I have considered has never been in stock on UK site.
Ditto.

In the 'Surround/Gaming DAC' section every time I looked (which was a lot) only the Fulla would be in stock. Occasionally the Hel 2 came 'in stock' and only in the last few weeks has the Gunnr been readily 'in stock'. So when I was patiently waiting for the Fosi Audio K7 I was always looking out for the Gunnr. But a combination of its price, lack of availability and features basically made me disregard it.

A quick look at the site and I would say it's about half of it in stock, and the other half out of stock.
 
Yep, sadly Schiit put their international resellers at the back of the queue when it comes to stock but using the UK site is the only way of getting a warranty that's not going to involve a game of transatlantic ping-pong and the costs that entails.
He does post on facebook when new stock is incoming, which helps when the items sell out so quickly
 
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It's a shame really as there is some good American brands out there that are hard to source over here, particularly Geshelli labs, love that company's passion and ethos, I really want their Dazyee DAC as it's a distribution DAC that has 6 outputs, I think one of the only one in the world as far I know, if I remember correctly I think it was originally born from ZEOS (the YouTuber) that asked them for a DAC that could output to multiple devices to make it easier to test gear on his channel, years later that bare PCB with no case they gave him evolved into the Dayzee DAC.
 
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