Games Development
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Soldato
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I have a degree in Computer Games Technology. I've been employed for nearly 2 years now in a fairly well paid job. However, if I could go back I would definitely have done Computer Science, as most of the modules were the same, and the games-specific ones were a bit crap if I'm honest. Plus Computer Science would probably have been taken more seriously on my CV.
Ok. There seem to be a few misconceptions in this thread! I am a 'games developer' (coder) so here are my 2 cents.
Firstly I would be very suspicious of any course called 'game development'. There are 3 main areas of game development: design, art, and engineering. Each of which is separate and has a completely different education path. It doesn't really make sense to wrap them up into one course.
Secondly, every person in the industry I know would not recommend doing any non-traditional course. I.e. if you want to be a coder then study maths, physics, computer science or engineering. If you want to be an artist then study fine art. E.g for a coder at A level, a good selection would be maths, further maths, and physics.
So to sum up, the best route to the industry is to 1) know early on what role you want, 2) study traditional subjects which develop the skills required for that role, 3) do game projects in your own time during study to build up a portfolio.
If you do all 3 you will walk into a good job.
It is generally hardest to become an entry level designer and going the designer route has a less obvious education path and a greater emphasis on portfolio and 'interview skills'.
For all the Abertay folks, the course may be the best 'games' course but it involves only a low level of maths and the lecturers (though nice people) have next to no industry experience and none of them can code very well! I would not recommend it (I did the CGT masters there).
Any questions, just ask.
I've been in the industry (gameplay/AI coder) for 7 years after coming out with an MSc in Comp Science. And I 100% agree with this.
Got to agree with AGD. I didn't work at my leaving cert (A levels) mainly because I was a lazy bum back then so only got into a diploma course on multimedia progarmming. Luckily the EU turned around and decided our diploma course should turn into an ordinary degree with an optional 4th year for honours degree. After 3 years though I'd had enough of that rubbish course. Basically never trust a course that is going to try to teach you too broad a range of subjects. I went into it thinking it would be great for game design which is sort of where it was aimed at.
After that I went and did the 4th year of a Software Engineering course which helped me a lot in terms of actually designing code. I then went and did a 1 year MSc in game technology in a good Uni. At that stage though I knew to concentrate on doing one or two main areas and luckily that course allowed you to do that and didn't try to teach too broad a range of subjects.
In the end I came out of Uni after 5 years with enough knowledge and experience to walk into a job in the VFX industry as an R&D programmer. In turn this has given me enough experience and good coding practice to get into a low-mid range job in the game industry if I choose to.
To sum up, broad courses are bad, concentrated courses are good. Looking back on the three courses I did, probably the best one for learning how to design code (learning to code is easy, designing code is an art that can never be mastered fully) was the software engineering course. It might sound the most boring from the title of it but luckily we had a great course director who made sure it was interesting.
If I could have I would have gone for a computer science course at a decent uni. My one failing throughout the three courses was that I was never thought maths until my MSc at which point it was quite abstract maths that had no bearing on programming or games (no 3D maths at all) and the professor was clinically insane. I also was never taught C++. To be honest those two things should have kept me from getting any job whatsoever out of college, if I were hiring for a game position now and found out someone had never done C++ or maths in college I'd never pick them. Luckily I got into the job I have now which has given be 2 hard years of very intense C++ and quite a bit of maths thrown in so I've picked up most of what I missed along the way.
Sorry for the long winded reply, I hope you can take something from my experiences that will help you decide how to aim yourself at college in order to come out the other end having learnt something useful. In the end it's entirely up to you what you learn in Uni, the biggest mistake people make is in thinking that it's up to the lecturers to teach you like it is in school. They're just there to help you learn and will give you a few tips along the way, it's up to you to go do not only the projects you're given but side projects of your own that will help you learn. You will never have as much free time again as you do in college, use it wisely!
After that I went and did the 4th year of a Software Engineering course which helped me a lot in terms of actually designing code. I then went and did a 1 year MSc in game technology in a good Uni. At that stage though I knew to concentrate on doing one or two main areas and luckily that course allowed you to do that and didn't try to teach too broad a range of subjects.
In the end I came out of Uni after 5 years with enough knowledge and experience to walk into a job in the VFX industry as an R&D programmer. In turn this has given me enough experience and good coding practice to get into a low-mid range job in the game industry if I choose to.
To sum up, broad courses are bad, concentrated courses are good. Looking back on the three courses I did, probably the best one for learning how to design code (learning to code is easy, designing code is an art that can never be mastered fully) was the software engineering course. It might sound the most boring from the title of it but luckily we had a great course director who made sure it was interesting.
If I could have I would have gone for a computer science course at a decent uni. My one failing throughout the three courses was that I was never thought maths until my MSc at which point it was quite abstract maths that had no bearing on programming or games (no 3D maths at all) and the professor was clinically insane. I also was never taught C++. To be honest those two things should have kept me from getting any job whatsoever out of college, if I were hiring for a game position now and found out someone had never done C++ or maths in college I'd never pick them. Luckily I got into the job I have now which has given be 2 hard years of very intense C++ and quite a bit of maths thrown in so I've picked up most of what I missed along the way.
Sorry for the long winded reply, I hope you can take something from my experiences that will help you decide how to aim yourself at college in order to come out the other end having learnt something useful. In the end it's entirely up to you what you learn in Uni, the biggest mistake people make is in thinking that it's up to the lecturers to teach you like it is in school. They're just there to help you learn and will give you a few tips along the way, it's up to you to go do not only the projects you're given but side projects of your own that will help you learn. You will never have as much free time again as you do in college, use it wisely!
Soldato
- Joined
- 23 May 2005
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- Auckland, New Zealand
Ok. There seem to be a few misconceptions in this thread! I am a 'games developer' (coder) so here are my 2 cents.
Firstly I would be very suspicious of any course called 'game development'. There are 3 main areas of game development: design, art, and engineering. Each of which is separate and has a completely different education path. It doesn't really make sense to wrap them up into one course.
Secondly, every person in the industry I know would not recommend doing any non-traditional course. I.e. if you want to be a coder then study maths, physics, computer science or engineering. If you want to be an artist then study fine art. E.g for a coder at A level, a good selection would be maths, further maths, and physics.
So to sum up, the best route to the industry is to 1) know early on what role you want, 2) study traditional subjects which develop the skills required for that role, 3) do game projects in your own time during study to build up a portfolio.
If you do all 3 you will walk into a good job.
It is generally hardest to become an entry level designer and going the designer route has a less obvious education path and a greater emphasis on portfolio and 'interview skills'.
For all the Abertay folks, the course may be the best 'games' course but it involves only a low level of maths and the lecturers (though nice people) have next to no industry experience and none of them can code very well! I would not recommend it (I did the CGT masters there).
Any questions, just ask.
Yup.. While CGT was good for me, it's not been good for others. I got a 1st and that might have set me apart. It's certainly not a bad course, but a decent computer science course is without a doubt the best option if you want to be a coder. There's a great AI course at Edinburgh university that I wish I'd done, which would have taught me everything I want/need to know today and more. Instead, I'm playing catch up on what I think I should already know.
you really need to know what you want to do in games, before you take it further.
Production? Get a business degree and lots of contacts.
Programming? Computer science degree (and make your honours project games related)
Art? Concentrate on both traditional and digital art. Too many people learn how to use Maya and think they have what it takes. My brother spent a long time studying human anatomy trying to become a character artist.
Design? Do one of the above three, get tired of it and move into a design position.
Need to be careful with games courses, a lot of them just will not cut it due to the content they cover or who they are taught by...
Also doing more than what the course asks for is very important imo, having a portfolio of stuff you have done in your own time is not only a bonus for when you do apply for a job but arguably more beneficial in terms of skill and knowledge towards your chosen field, MUCH more. There is only so much you will achieve when you do only what is asked of you.
My course taught me the basics of a couple of programming languages but it was pretty much a "go do" and "fend for yourself" scenario, for example in my first year I had to make a game over the duration of 4 months or so? I knew C# but no idea of XNA, we were never taught it, just given the download link haha. But spent time with it, played around with it and pretty much knew it like the back of my hand by the end of it. And that gave a very good foundation of skills for what came next over the coming years, especially the second as that was sink or swim. I still have nightmares from assembly... Anyway our course started with, 70 odd people? Less than 20 of us graduated...
Can't comment on the quality of the course I did now though because I don't know, it has dramatically changed in terms of leadership and content since I left, but it still has ex-industry people lecturing there and the quality of stuff I see coming out of there looks good so yeah...
ANYWAY I am rambling... choose a particular role, programming, art etc, stick to it and practice, practice! And build a portfolio! Each of those roles then branch off to even more things but you may not know what you want to do until you've dipped your toes into all of them!
(Also didn't do a course at college, did A-Levels and then did a course at Uni if you were wondering)
Also doing more than what the course asks for is very important imo, having a portfolio of stuff you have done in your own time is not only a bonus for when you do apply for a job but arguably more beneficial in terms of skill and knowledge towards your chosen field, MUCH more. There is only so much you will achieve when you do only what is asked of you.
My course taught me the basics of a couple of programming languages but it was pretty much a "go do" and "fend for yourself" scenario, for example in my first year I had to make a game over the duration of 4 months or so? I knew C# but no idea of XNA, we were never taught it, just given the download link haha. But spent time with it, played around with it and pretty much knew it like the back of my hand by the end of it. And that gave a very good foundation of skills for what came next over the coming years, especially the second as that was sink or swim. I still have nightmares from assembly... Anyway our course started with, 70 odd people? Less than 20 of us graduated...
Can't comment on the quality of the course I did now though because I don't know, it has dramatically changed in terms of leadership and content since I left, but it still has ex-industry people lecturing there and the quality of stuff I see coming out of there looks good so yeah...
ANYWAY I am rambling... choose a particular role, programming, art etc, stick to it and practice, practice! And build a portfolio! Each of those roles then branch off to even more things but you may not know what you want to do until you've dipped your toes into all of them!
(Also didn't do a course at college, did A-Levels and then did a course at Uni if you were wondering)
Traditional course + portfolio = higher chance of a job in games.
A lot of people can't hack working in games due to the potentially (getting better) long hours and high stress levels - so they leave. If you have a traditional degree you have a much better chance of moving into another industry.
OP what are you wanting to do? Design, Art, Programming, Production? You may find something in publisher would be better suited; so Marketing, Brand Development, Creative Services, Community Management etc.
Good luck either way.
A lot of people can't hack working in games due to the potentially (getting better) long hours and high stress levels - so they leave. If you have a traditional degree you have a much better chance of moving into another industry.
OP what are you wanting to do? Design, Art, Programming, Production? You may find something in publisher would be better suited; so Marketing, Brand Development, Creative Services, Community Management etc.
Good luck either way
.
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OP what are you wanting to do? Design, Art, Programming, Production? You may find something in publisher would be better suited; so Marketing, Brand Development, Creative Services, Community Management etc.
Good luck either way
I'm Mainly going in it for the Art and programming, My dads a developer and i've been learning a bit of him from the years, I my friends brother who also studded the same course and he said at times it got really really hard but once you learn the basics your fine
Soldato
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Computer Science, with a fair amount of maths thrown in, which you can learn on the side, or as a complement course.
Algebra, calculus, vector maths (matrices, quaternions, vectors...). That's pretty much the basics, alongside programming. That stuff is ubiquitous in games programming.
You can learn a lot about games programming on your own, there's a lot of resources available. Check out gamedev.net.
Algebra, calculus, vector maths (matrices, quaternions, vectors...). That's pretty much the basics, alongside programming. That stuff is ubiquitous in games programming.
You can learn a lot about games programming on your own, there's a lot of resources available. Check out gamedev.net.
If you can get a A* in maths then I'd do that, worth a shed load more than GD and applicable to everything.
Degree will get a "foot in the door" and get him started in development. I'd definitely recommend doing a degree, but he could also develop outside of school and try and get noticed (modding use to be good for this, dunno if it still is).
Again, advise him to do Comp Sci rather than pure Games Development.
Soldato
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Why do "games design" when normal programming would be more apealing to an employer?
It is becoming more and more common for games companies to require degrees. I know that my company doesn't really look at CVs/portfolios from people without 2:1s.
As with everything, you can break in with a really good portfolio, but your son will have no backup if he doesn't make it. Doing a degree (e.g. in computer science) will not only give him the skills required, but also give him plenty of time to work on his portfolio and provide a backup if he changes his mind about what he wants to do.
Why lie?