• Competitor rules

    Please remember that any mention of competitors, hinting at competitors or offering to provide details of competitors will result in an account suspension. The full rules can be found under the 'Terms and Rules' link in the bottom right corner of your screen. Just don't mention competitors in any way, shape or form and you'll be OK.

Games, how many cores do you need?

Pleiades said:
Yes, yes we must do that! Please "call to deliver AMD to the Court"! :rolleyes:
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It's in your rights, if you know them, of course.

https://www.justice.gov/atr/price-fixing-bid-rigging-and-market-allocation-schemes

American consumers have the right to expect the benefits of free and open competition — the best goods and services at the lowest prices. Public and private organizations often rely on a competitive bidding process to achieve that end. The competitive process only works, however, when competitors set prices honestly and independently. When competitors collude, prices are inflated and the customer is cheated. Price fixing, bid rigging, and other forms of collusion are illegal and are subject to criminal prosecution by the Antitrust Division of the United States Department of Justice.

In recent years, the Antitrust Division has successfully prosecuted regional, national, and international conspiracies affecting construction, agricultural products, manufacturing, service industries, consumer products, and many other sectors of our economy. Many of these prosecutions resulted from information uncovered by members of the general public who reported the information to the Antitrust Division. Working together, we can continue the effort to protect and promote free and open competition in the marketplaces of America.

This primer contains an overview of the federal antitrust laws and the penalties that may be imposed for their violation. It briefly describes the most common antitrust violations and outlines those conditions and events that indicate anticompetitive collusion so that you might better identify and report suspicious activity.

competitors divide markets among themselves. In such schemes, competing firms allocate specific customers or types of customers, products, or territories among themselves. For example, one competitor will be allowed to sell to, or bid on contracts let by, certain customers or types of customers. In return, he or she will not sell to, or bid on contracts let by, customers allocated to the other competitors. In other schemes, competitors agree to sell only to customers in certain geographic areas and refuse to sell to, or quote intentionally high prices to, customers in geographic areas allocated to conspirator companies.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_allocation_scheme
 
Somewhat awkward that you highlighted the words American consumers but it makes no difference.

AMD is offering more multicore performance for less money than previously, taking market share from Intel and you reckon that's ripping off the consumer.

Guess AMD should just pack up and go home then. I don't recall you being this excited when Intel was offering worse prices and worse performance with no competitor.
 
It seems that a node shrink *and* higher clock speed is hard. (Judging from reports on intel's struggles)
I bet a node shrink and higher clocks (although it could be argued that AMD kind of broke-even on clocks this time) without increasing prices is *really* hard.
 
Hotwired said:
Somewhat awkward that you highlighted the words American consumers but it makes no difference.

AMD is offering more multicore performance for less money than previously, taking market share from Intel and you reckon that's ripping off the consumer.

Guess AMD should just pack up and go home then. I don't recall you being this excited when Intel was offering worse prices and worse performance with no competitor.
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Yes, because they have the manufacturing processes of TSMC 7FF, N7 and N7P, and technological capability to offer Ryzen 9 3900X without any type of shortages.
They don't and don't give an honest explanation as to why.

We all know that the chiplets are very small, hence extremely cheap to be produced.
 
Terminal_Boy said:
Have games improved their utilisation of multiple cores now?

I remember when one very fast core was the answer for ArmA etc.
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The Intel ST performance argument just doesn't hold water any more. :)

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ARMA.png
 
4K8KW10 said:
We all know that the chiplets are very small, hence extremely cheap to be produced.
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Maybe *after* you spend A LOT of money on R&D to design a new architecture. And also after you take a big risk...and fail... by going the more-core route with Bulldozer.

Heck, this chipplet design, that you think is so "cheap" now,was a huge gamble itself, and they still have to work around latency issues to get competitive performance.
 
Twinz said:
Maybe *after* you spend A LOT of money on R&D to design a new architecture. And also after you take a big risk...and fail... by going the more-core route with Bulldozer.

Heck, this chipplet design, that you think is so "cheap" now,was a huge gamble itself, and they still have to work around latency issues to get competitive performance.
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Can you prove that they have spent too much money on R&D besides the salaries which they pay anyways, with or without the architecture change?
Remember that TSMC's N7 process has already been running for many months for other customers.
 
humbug said:
Ryzen 9 3900X 12 core 24 Thread: £530 https://www.overclockers.co.uk/amd-...hz-socket-am4-processor-retail-cp-3b5-am.html

Intel Core i9 7920X 12 Core 24 Thread: £999 https://www.overclockers.co.uk/inte...ocket-lga2066-processor-retail-cp-63l-in.html

What's the problem with pricing on the 3900X? given also that the 3900X is pre core faster than the 7920X.
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But LGA2066 platform is for workstations, it's HEDT, not MSDT as Ryzen 9 is.
The LGA2066 motherboards are better, too.
 
4K8KW10 said:
But LGA2066 platform is for workstations, it's HEDT, not MSDT as Ryzen 9 is.
The LGA2066 motherboards are better, too.
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Better than X570? no.

Apart from Quad channel RAM what do you get on X299 that you don't get on X570?

SkylakeX is a workstation platform because it does MT Workstation work much faster than Z390, it has more cores, the 3900X is faster, way faster than the 7920X in those workloads, the 3900X is always out of stock because its in high demand.
 
humbug said:
the 3900X is always out of stock because its in high demand.
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Why would you think that selling only ~1,000-1,200 Ryzen 9 CPUs in July, represents "high" demand? 1200 out of 18,000 is only 6.66%?
6.66% of all the AMD CPUs sold during the same period ? ? ?

8fs34lE.png
 
4K8KW10 said:
Why would you think that selling only ~1,000-1,200 Ryzen 9 CPUs in July, represents "high" demand? 1200 out of 18,000 is only 6.66%?
6.66% of all the AMD CPUs sold during the same period ? ? ?

8fs34lE.png
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Its the 4'th highest selling CPU out of AMD's product stack, that's not bad, also, AMD sold more 3900X's than Intel sold 9900K's.
 
4K8KW10 said:
Can you prove that they have spent too much money on R&D besides the salaries which they pay anyways, with or without the architecture change?
Remember that TSMC's N7 process has already been running for many months for other customers.
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I would expect the burden of proof to be on the accuser, (you) not the accused. (AMD).

AMD has managed to shrink their node and maintain or increase clock speed and IPC.

Intel has been trying to do this for years now. How much money has Intel spent on the endeavour that has yet to be successful?

I don't know how much money AMD spent to make this architecture work, but I seriously doubt it was free. I can't actually prove that AMD spent a dime on R&D...I have no evidence that magic silicon fairies didn't visit Lisa Su in a dream and give her a working 7nm architecture for desktops that rivals the best Intel has to offer and at lower price points.

I can't prove it. No.
 
4K8KW10 said:
But LGA2066 platform is for workstations, it's HEDT, not MSDT as Ryzen 9 is.
The LGA2066 motherboards are better, too.
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You do realise that your comments in this thread at best make you look ignorant/stupid and at worst totally deluded? When good arguments fail, making stuff up with not a shread of proof does not make you right.

Besides, AMD and Intel for that matter can charge exactly what they want to for any product, regardless of costs in r&d etc, etc they dont need pricing approval from anybody first, that includes you.
 
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Great thread @humbug and I agree with what you're saying. In 2019, if you are looking to build a new PC and you're on a budget, the minimum you should be going for is 6 cores. Preferably from a chip thats no more than 2 years old.

As the next gen consoles get released, and they are said to have 8 cores, I believe that game developers will for sure start developing games that take into account all 8 cores and their full power. This will naturally trickle down to PC and 8 cores will pretty much be the standard. Of course a small indie game is not going to need that many cores, but the majority of major titles will.

If consoles have 8c/16t its only natural for a PC to have that as a minimum, and for the majority have more than 8 cores. Would not be surprised at all if within 3 years time that 12 core PC's were almost the standard and mainstream
 
Praz94 said:
Great thread @humbug and I agree with what you're saying. In 2019, if you are looking to build a new PC and you're on a budget, the minimum you should be going for is 6 cores. Preferably from a chip thats no more than 2 years old.

As the next gen consoles get released, and they are said to have 8 cores, I believe that game developers will for sure start developing games that take into account all 8 cores and their full power. This will naturally trickle down to PC and 8 cores will pretty much be the standard. Of course a small indie game is not going to need that many cores, but the majority of major titles will.

If consoles have 8c/16t its only natural for a PC to have that as a minimum, and for the majority have more than 8 cores. Would not be surprised at all if within 3 years time that 12 core PC's were almost the standard and mainstream
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Apparently Zen 2 cores, should be interesting.
 
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