Gaming Build Advice

gryph

gryph

gryph

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Joined
14 Sep 2009
Posts
36
Hi all

Long time lurker, first time poster :)

I'm looking at getting a new system, desktop, purely for gaming and to a much lesser extent, a streaming media server. Having spent time looking through all the reviews and benchmarks I'm somewhat baffled!

Having always had low to mid end systems, I've no idea what it's like to have a game set to max and run a smooth 30+ fps and to that end can't relate to benchmarks stating 90+ fps on max settings.

In the real world, someone sat playing, is there any difference to a system pulling 50 fps min to a system at 90 fps min on the same game, same detail settings? Basically, I'm trying to justify the price difference between the more budget option compared to the full on overclocked i7.

Games I will be playing cover:

Everquest 2 (mainly cpu related, but a new update to help with gfx performance due soon)
Eve Online
TF2/CSS/any number of Source games
Fallout 3
Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2 (Nov time I think)
Left 4 Dead
Left 4 Dead 2

I'll be running a 24" monitor (probably Samsung) at 1900x1080 and wanting to run at the highest possible settings.


To the hardware!!....

For the tin itself, I'd stretch to £1.5k if it genuinely made a difference to experience, but the closer to £1k the better.

I'm really tempted by the OCers ready built systems as it just makes life easier for me, however if I could save £100+ I would look at building myself.

Apart from the maxxed benchmarks, could anyone advise if there is much 'actual' difference for a gamer between an AMD Phenom II x4 955 black system at 3.8 ghz (4gb ram) and an Intel i7 920 at 3.8 or 4ghz (6gb ram)? Or should I consider a dual core Wolfdale and crank it to 4ghz plus? The gfx card I'll be looking to run will be one of the new ATIs launched in the (very) near future. HDD initially just +/- 1tb 7200 rpm, with looking to move to SSD in the future.

Oh, and finally - quiet is good. Is there a particular case I should look at for that aspect?

Any and all advice is much appreciated, cheers!
 
Ok, this is an interesting one. You have a huge budget, so lots of people should be interested in helping. Here's my two-pence.

A system running your game at 90fps on the same settings as another that manages only 50 means you've got the future in mind. New games will still run on the 90fps one, while the 50 may start to struggle by next year. Honestly, I have no idea what kind of games will be out in years to come, or even if they'll sort out some way of making old hardware play them super fast. We will never know. (is DX11 as good as everyone says?)

My system is in my sig. Currently, it runs Fallout 3 at 1680x1050, all spec literally maxed. I have it at 2xAA and 8xAF to keep the very minor slowdown at a minimum... The only time I get slowdown now is at Point Lookout, running through the forest... Lots of trees makes for some nasty slowdown.

My knowledge of the i7 suggests that it is not as suited to gaming as the older Core 2 Quads. i7 has hyperthreading, which can actually flood the cpu cache, and slow down your gaming. (It tries to compute too much). This has been shown in some benchmarks on sites... I honestly can't remember where i saw it, as it was a while ago.

Gaming currently only really needs a dual core. The older Core 2 Quad chips are actually two dual cores stuck together, so you get HUGE gaming benefits from this. Yes, it lowers your upgradeability a bit, as i5 has just come out (these will probably be awesome for gaming, but i haven't read any benchmarks for these).

i5 looks like a winner, as they took away the HyperThreading. If i had that much money, I'd probably go for an i5, with a GTX295, or Crossfire 4890s. Dual Channel DDR3-1333 is possibly the best value at the moment... the small speed increases probably won't be noticeable for most games.

One benefit of the i7 is triple channel DDR3. That gives you some HUGE memory bandwidth, but personally I don't think you'll notice that too much. Might get you an extra frame or two per second....

As for a Power Supply, I'd suggest you go for a massive one like a 1000W, or even a bit more. This is more for upgradeability, as it won't get pushed much, and will therefore last you a long time, even through complete system replacements in future. Pay little but often, or large but once.

Hope I've helped.
 
Ive come up with this i5 option, imo youre best going either i5 or AM3, for the AM3 option simply swap out the CPU and mobo in this build for the 955BE and asus crosshair formula mobo, the rest stays the same. No gfx card included as Id recomend one of the new 5870s (out tomorrow), that will take you upto your £1500 but thats including a nice monitor in there too, it sounded like you havent bought one yet so thought Id include one for a recomendation. You dont need anywhere near 1000W for "future proofing", a quality 750W PSU is better than a cheaper 1000W one and will see you well for years to come as well as support dual gfx. The case I included is nice and quiet, as you mentioned that, and a blu ray player in case that fits into your media requirements. If you dont want to spend the premium on a new 5870 then a 4890 will do and still play all current games at max, the 5870 adds that future proofing for games out in next couple of years, lol

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SAMndy, I agree completely with almost everything you just said. The i7 chips are great, but there is a price premium for them and you won't see the difference in gaming compared to a AMD phenom 2 955 or i5 750. If the system is just for gaming then go for either of these systems and spend the money saved on a very good monitor (it is what you look at all the time, after all).

As for graphics, the OP is right to be looking for the new cards. Hopefully the 5870 lands in the UK at a fair price and in large quantities.

One thing I take issue with is this:

As for a Power Supply, I'd suggest you go for a massive one like a 1000W, or even a bit more. This is more for upgradeability, as it won't get pushed much, and will therefore last you a long time, even through complete system replacements in future. Pay little but often, or large but once.
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You really don't need a huge PSU like this, they are very expensive and huge. I understand what you mean about keeping it for the future, but you would be better with one of these (or even the 850W version). That PSU is extremely efficient, has plenty of power for a Multi GPU rig and comes with a 7 year warranty.
 
Thats fair enough, I agree that a smaller one will last a long time, but I was going for the possibility of something like crossfire or sli for some of the newer cards to come out.. They may well draw more juice... I'll admit though, that I haven't really been into the whole power supply thing. I just buy one a value up from what I think I need, and make sure its a good make, then stick with that for years to come. It's served me well so far.

edit: on the subject of PSUs, whats happened to Enermax? There aren't any on the site anymore... - never mind, seen the other thread.
 
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Good advice here as always, my 2 cents:

1) Your budget is huge, so you should be able to get anything you need, within reason. All options are open.

2) I've always been under the impression the OcUK prebuilt systems are good value, plus you do get the peace of mind of having it pre-clocked for you, unless you actively enjoy doing that, it can be stressful! :) Certainly if you're getting an entire system from scratch, it's a good option.

3) Intel will give you the absolute best performance right now, but AMD will give you slightly more bang for your buck (and better overclocking). Doesn't sound like you need the fastest system on the planet, so AMD would be a strong route.

4) The new ATi cards are out *today* so look out for the forum going crazy ;)

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-067-OE&groupid=43&catid=1445&subcat= would be a great starting point, just under 800 with Vista/7 and a 4890, but your budget goes way into the intel range too. http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=FS-084-OE&groupid=43&catid=1270&subcat= with a GTX285 is an incredible system.
 
Thank you for all the replies!

Some good looking builds there, including a few I hadn't considered.

While the budget is high, if the build comes in under, I'm happy - keeps some cash aside for the future. I think up to 900 - 1k for the box, with the remainder left for a high end screen seems the best route... as was correctly pointed out, the screen is the thing viewed the entire time!

A H50 cooled i5 build with 4890 is coming in at around £850 (not including monitor, os, etc), with OC build Phenom x3 at 3.3ghz at £539 without a gfx card. I wonder how the x3 with a 5870 would compare to an i5 with 4890, as the price would be around the same?
 
I have a semi-module PSU, great for cable management as all the things you cant get away without are attached in the first place such as the 24 pin and 4/6 pin motherboard connectors, it makes sense they are less efficient as they have extra contacts to deal with increasing resistance for example. Personally I would wait to see what tomorrow triggers pricing, not just for the 5870 etc but it might have some interesting changes in the prices of other cards too.
 
fross said:
The x3 will generally be faster than an i5, and a 5870 should definitely trump a 4890...
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In GPU bound situations, the X3 certainly could be just as fast as the i5, but faster? I don't think so. Have a look at this review, in games the i5 750 matches or beats the Quad core 3.4GHz Phenom 2 965, I reckon a Tri core at 2.8GHz will run a bit slower still.

But your are absolutely right about the 5870- from what I have seen so far it will blast past the 4870X2 and give the GTX295 a run for its money.
 
cmndr_andi said:
Yea, these modular supplies are pretty awful.
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He was being ironic I think. The main point to take away is in a good quality modular supply any resistance which builds up over time at the points would be minimal compared to the length of the wire. I love my modular supply because of its flexibility and lack of clutter, but the important point im sure is good quality. the one cmndr_andi has linked looks very good.
 
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