General Headphone Audio

[Angst]

Though they don't have the clinical "hi-res" clarity of say the Sony MDR range and there is the Sennheiser treble veil, I don't think the HD600s really sacrifice clarity - if you are driving them with the right amp and listening to something which is well mastered like a real recording of an orchestra with high end production then all the clarity is there you could wish for.

They might not be the best tuning match up with the quality of some modern music which might have an impact on perceived clarity due to other headphones hiding the ugliness more but IMO that isn't a fault of the headphones so to speak.

EDIT: Not to say there aren't headphones better for clarity - the HD800 are in a different league. I've never been able to nail down the technical reason behind it but I find any amp that uses less than a +/-9V supply tends to result in the HD600 series having a slight or worse muddiness and really they work best with amps which use +/-10.5V - I'm not sure why as if it was a voltage x gain product problem you'd simply run into clipping which would be noticeable.

Yes i agree, I was just talking in comparative terms with the mentioned headphones.
As you say the hd6x0 have the "sennheiser veil", they are very resolving but in direct comparison they can sound like they have less detail due to lacking that spikey treble sparkle.

 

[mrk]

Kind of wish I kept the HD650 as really want to see how they sound on the X9 with the way it drives headphones, maybe if I ever see a cheap pair going online I'll explore that once again for nostalgia's sake. But otherwise I am fully in with planars forever.

Finally a new K13 R2R review emerges:

 

[Angst]

You will probably be the same as me if you buy them again, they sound great till you hit a track that has a lot of bass notes and you will just sit there wondering where it all is.

 

[Rroff]

You will probably be the same as me if you buy them again, they sound great till you hit a track that has a lot of bass notes and you will just sit there wondering where it all is.

Shame they couldn't make a headphone, probably physically impossible, that has the V1 Momentum bass with the HD600 series mid-range, somehow they telegraph the bass before it hits which makes for a satisfying listening experience like being hit by a freight train (you've got the anticipation then boom) but unfortunately comes with some mid-range articulation issues which is more or less apparent depending on the track.

 

[maj]

Is this the right thread to ask about the Fosi ZH3? Looking for a all in one dac/amp to replace my topping d10 and atom amp. It's on offer at the moment and seems pretty decent spec wise to my knowledge.

From what I know this uses AKM rather than ESS. They are meant to sound different if that is to be believed.

Was looking at the fiio k13 r2r or topping dx5 II but not sure if they'd both be overkill my for current HE400se which I use daily but may yet get something better when budget allows.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Is this the right thread to ask about the Fosi ZH3? Looking for a all in one dac/amp to replace my topping d10 and atom amp. It's on offer at the moment and seems pretty decent spec wise to my knowledge.

From what I know this uses AKM rather than ESS. They are meant to sound different if that is to be believed.

Was looking at the fiio k13 r2r or topping dx5 II but not sure if they'd both be overkill my for current HE400se which I use daily but may yet get something better when budget allows.

I like the look of that but I would also consider the Fosi Audio K7 DAC Headphone Amp, go check out a few reviews on it, it is rather good.

 

[Rroff]

From what I know this uses AKM rather than ESS. They are meant to sound different if that is to be believed.

It is a very big generalisation, but in my experience AKM tends to be more musically pleasing so to speak while ESS based DACs tend to have a more clinical "hi-res" sound, which is better depends on the listener and can depend quite a bit on what other circuitry is involved as well as the headphones.

 

[mrk]

For the most part AKM will be favoured by more people as it's more musical, smoother sounding and a wider soundstage. If you are gaming too then the wide soundstage features will lend itself to that as well. I found the DX5 II to be too sterile in sound with planar headphones which pair much better with warmer amps. AKM Velvet is factory tuned to sound a specific way without sacrificing upper end detail and this is exactly what I have heard through the same headphones between both chip types.

The K13 R2R is neither of them but is equally wide staging as the AKM whilst retaining a broader sense of resolution and musicality at the same time. I'd say it sits in the middle of ESS and AKM Velvet whilst still doing its own thing and standing out from the other. Three different sound signatures between all three, all highly capable and producing detailed sound that just a few years ago you'd be paying up to or above 4 figures for vs under £300.

 

[Angst]

Shame they couldn't make a headphone, probably physically impossible, that has the V1 Momentum bass with the HD600 series mid-range, somehow they telegraph the bass before it hits which makes for a satisfying listening experience like being hit by a freight train (you've got the anticipation then boom) but unfortunately comes with some mid-range articulation issues which is more or less apparent depending on the track.

I've never owned those so sadly can't compare.
I will say though ive owned multiple other dynamics that have plenty of bass, like a couple of different fostex models, but the sub bass never hits the same way as with a planar. I assume its at least partially down to the size of the drivers.

 

[Rroff]

I haven't spent nearly enough time with planars - but at the moment I'm enjoying the FF1s to the point it has eliminated the itch, sure they are at the end of the day earbuds but the imaging just does it for me and they are comfortable to use as an alternative to when I don't want to wear my HD600s.

 

[Timber]

Is this the right thread to ask about the Fosi ZH3? Looking for a all in one dac/amp to replace my topping d10 and atom amp. It's on offer at the moment and seems pretty decent spec wise to my knowledge.

From what I know this uses AKM rather than ESS. They are meant to sound different if that is to be believed.

Was looking at the fiio k13 r2r or topping dx5 II but not sure if they'd both be overkill my for current HE400se which I use daily but may yet get something better when budget allows.

I agree with the comments as an owner of the D10 Balanced and a few different AKM's based DAC/AMP there definitely is a slight nuance to the sound as described. Although I think the amplifier can make a bigger difference, although I appreciate that's a difficult point when a lot of these units are all-in-ones. From the few reviews and ASR threads etc. the ZH3 has been very well received. This is the unit where @mrk made the point Fosi don't have Windows drivers a few pages back.

I do own the Fosi K7 and I am a huge fan. Particularly for PS5 and general gaming where it does everything, including mic all in one box. It uses very similar components although the ZH3 has more inputs and outputs which the K7 can't compete with. Also more power than the K7 too.

The ZH3 looks very good value at £153. I'm not sure how different it's going to be from your current setup with the HE400's though, but will certainly simplify it in an all in one box. I haven't heard the K13 R2R or DX5 II but they do have some extra features for the money.

 

[Timber]

This is the unit where @mrk made the point Fosi don't have Windows drivers a few pages back.

Actually just had a look and Fosi do have a Windows driver (v5.68). It's just hidden away in the support pages for each DAC, and sometimes bundled with ASIO drivers for Foobar (in the case of the ZH3). Not sure if it includes the 'Option' panel in the driver though.

Can't remember if that was our conclusion at the time.

 

[mrk]

Someone with a Fosi will have to test and find out I guess, but yeah at the time I couldn't find the driver, or as above it was rather hidden to easily find at least anyway.

 

[Rroff]

Had to revert to 24bit sound on my setups - while the game is broken in a lot of ways including the sound so there is that but Battlefield 4 with 32bit audio set in Windows frequently gets positional audio mixed up and/or sounds played out of phase

 

[Timber]

Someone with a Fosi will have to test and find out I guess, but yeah at the time I couldn't find the driver, or as above it was rather hidden to easily find at least anyway.

I have the K7 - although it's plugged into the PS5 Pro. I will need to move it around. If I install the Fosi drivers that's 4 on this one PC, technically 5 if you include the Creative App. I wonder at what point Windows starts potentially crapping out.

 

[mrk]

If Windows 11 then it handles hardware rather well so should be no problem with even more really

 

[Rroff]

I have the K7 - although it's plugged into the PS5 Pro. I will need to move it around. If I install the Fosi drivers that's 4 on this one PC, technically 5 if you include the Creative App. I wonder at what point Windows starts potentially crapping out.

I haven't managed to make Windows crap out in this respect so far myself, even with Creative drivers in the mix which tends to not be a good starting point.

EDIT: Though I tend to purge some after awhile if I'm not using the device as everything likes to have its own startup entry, etc. which generally isn't a big deal on modern PCs but I don't like having the extra mess.

 

[Timber]

Installed the drivers and I can't see an 'Options' panel for the Fosi drivers including that 'Streaming' option as on the iFi (v5.57), Fiio (v5.74.2) and Topping (v5.74.0) drivers. But then I can't get the Fosi K7 to mis-behave and do that 'wake' up issue (i.e. Windows left alone for a minute, then do a screenshot with no other apps open).

iFi drivers:

 

[Rroff]

Installed the drivers and I can't see an 'Options' panel for the Fosi drivers including that 'Streaming' option as on the iFi (v5.57), Fiio (v5.74.2) and Topping (v5.74.0) drivers. But then I can't get the Fosi K7 to mis-behave and do that 'wake' up issue (i.e. Windows left alone for a minute, then do a screenshot with no other apps open).

I don't know the details off the top of my head but there is an ini file (EDIT: might be .xml on some setups) somewhere you can tweak for these control panels (Fiio has the same one).

 

[Timber]

I don't know the details off the top of my head but there is an ini file (EDIT: might be .xml on some setups) somewhere you can tweak for these control panels (Fiio has the same one).

I think you're referring to this; ASR Forum Link.

Except I don't seem to have the XML file to edit. I remember when I tested the Fosi K7 in Linux it didn't do the wake delay issue in UAC 1.0 mode either, but did when set to UAC 2.0. I've just left everything for 5+ minutes and it's still behaving impeccably. Odd to say the least, unless my testing before was incorrect and the K7 was never doing the wake issue (I've not heard it on PS5 - albeit it's rare for the PS5 to be sending no audio signal).