General Headphone Audio

Timber said:
Hope everyone had a nice Christmas day, or is having a nice holidays.

I went a bit crazy last night; essentially ordering an entire new audio setup. I've been mulling changes for a while and didn't want to spend too much. However I wanted to simplify the number of DAC/AMP boxes attached to my PC (five currently), that can sound great with my HD 6x0 collection and also be useable for other media. And of course improve on what I already have.
  • Fiio K15 - fairly safe choice with some nice inputs/outputs, AKM chips that I like and should improve upon the K7.
  • Xduoo TA-66 - I think I can be fairly confident this should be comparable to other budget tube amps like the Little Dot, Dark Voice etc. and builds on the APOS Gremlin sound I love.
  • Edifier MR3 2.0 Studio Monitors - don't need anything fancy and have been running the Edifier R1600T speakers OCUK had on offer over a decade ago! The MR3's have balanced TRS inputs which will be useful.
  • Fiio K13 R2R - my slight extravagance, I know the Fiio Warmer was an option and would look brilliant next to a K15, but there's a few things I'm unsure about with it. I can obviously use the K13 as a DAC too.
All due to arrive over the next few days and I'm going to give it all a really good listening test. I might keep my iFi Zen CAN Signature HD 6XX if it adds something different to my setup but we'll see. Either way I'm hoping this should be the last spend on DAC/AMPs for a while.
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K15 and K13 R2R? Is it just so you can try the R2R sound?
 
Angst said:
Why both the k15 and k13? Are they for seperate rooms/setups?
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Raymond Lin said:
K15 and K13 R2R? Is it just so you can try the R2R sound?
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Yea, pretty much, it's why I called it my extravagance as in theory I only need the one DAC/AMP, but I'm very curious to try the K13. On its own and with the tubes, even if it ends up being too much warmth. Worst case is I like one so much that I quickly sell the other one.

Although I know I have my quirks. For example I love the Gremlin tube AMP, but only for music. I don't really like it for films/TV, or games and I know that's quite odd as often you read some people liking a particular sound for everything. So it might be that the K13 works well for me in certain scenarios.
 
R2R sound is absolutely my thing now, this much is clear, whether K13 with LPS or WARMER. There is no going back to delta sigma/fpga etc as far as DAC goes for my main setup. K13 with LPS is superbly wide and airy in the upper midrange and beyond which sounds even more musical than with the internal supply, whilst the WARMER stages a level above that with higher freq ranges that are pin sharp in detail but never so sharp that they are ever piercing or fatiguing.

The power and pre amps just need to be moderately transparent with light dowsings of smoothness and warmth to compliment R2R nicely.

For the money both cost, it's simply bargain of the decade I guess, and most reviews seem to attest to this as well.

Edit*

Someone commented on one of the WARMER video reviews:

I’m a hard core analogue fan. I only ever listen to digital when I have to and have always found it disappointing….. until now.

This unit is a revelation. I’m absolutely loving the sound I’m getting from my Tidal streaming and CD’s. I’ll still always go for my 1st or early press OG vinyl for albums I have on that format, but this unit has opened up so much more for me to enjoy.

I use the NOS mode exclusively, I find the oversampling gives it that colder, more clinical sound that I always found jarring - although, I find it still has more body and warmth even in that mode than other DACs I own (yes, I bought a few looking for that elusive, smoother sound that I thought impossible. Now I have it)

I really like it through my Westone Mach 60 IEMs, driven by another little gem, the Schitt Magni Unity - that’s an absolute banger and worth easily four times its price tag. It sounds great through my HD650’s too.

The soundstage is wiiiiide, the clarity is gorgeous and the imagining precise.

The bass super clean and faithful to the source recording. There’s no bass boost here, which I love, it sits exactly where intended and never gets in the way. If the recording has strong bass, you’ll hear strong bass, if restrained, you’ll hear that too. It extends as deep as the recording dictates, it’s just beautiful.

The mids are glorious (this is where most DACs fail in my experience). There’s no dip here, the midrange is clear and present in all its glory.

The mid highs - where I find most digital reproduction gets edgy - is well presented, crisp, clear, but never harsh or cold.

Top end is exceptionally detailed, clean, airy and extended - again, never harsh or fatiguing

Overall find the presentation to be more like my vinyl than the typical digital repo that I’m used to and have always been disappointed with.

All of this wonderful stuff makes for loooong, engaging and immensely enjoying listing sessions with not a hint of fatigue.

Absolutely love it and what a ridiculous bargain price tag.

I couldn’t imagine anyone not being blown away by how beautiful this sounds
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basically exactly my thoughts, though I have not really spent much time with vinyl, but instead the old school NAD amps which I always called "NAD Sound".
 
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Everything ended up arriving today, which was unexpected as the K13 R2R had an ETA of Monday. Given the stuff that's arrived I can't claim to have fully tested anything, but this afternoon and evening gave everything a workout. Apologies for the wall of text, but my initial impressions:
  • The K13 R2R and K15 are really nice, every bit as good looking in person. Interestingly the K15 came in a 'Fiio mailer box' with the authenticity sticker on the outer box. Nice touch.
  • I had some quirks today; firstly the K13 wouldn't initially power on. Was dead. Moved it to another room and another plug socket and still nothing. Then tried a new kettle lead and it lights up. So try the Fiio kettle lead again thinking it's a dud and the K13 now works on that too. AC switch and power switch were set correctly. Not sure what happened.
  • In terms of using each as a standalone DAC/AMP headphone (HD 600/6XX tested) I think it's so, so close between them. The K13 (NOS) has better bass with maybe a tiny bit more soundstage. It sounds like some treble is lost on the K13 though, particularly on the HD 600, compared to the 6XX. For example, Get Lucky – Daft Punk ft. Pharrell Williams has more treble nuance at the end of the song on the K15. The K15 has more detail overall. However I'd probably choose the warmer sound of the K13 if just using them as stand alone units. They are both phenomenal though.
  • The TA-66 is easily the best I've ever heard a HD 6x0 sound. I've been running it mostly from the K13 and it's just a step up from the APOS Gremlin. My second quirk, when I first plugged the TA-66 in was I got barely any volume. After some troubleshooting I realised you only put the large buffer tube in what feels like half-way. It then sang! If I run the K13 in Line-out it gets too loud for me even at the lowest volumes so I've been running the K13 in pre-out to reduce the volume and give me more adjustments on the TA-66 volume wheel (reminds me of the iFi stack in this regards). It's hard to explain but guitars have texture where you can almost feel the strums of the plectrum. It's sooo smooth. I guess the Gremlin works with more headphones, but for me and my HD 6x0 preference the TA-66 is a clear improvement.
  • One annoyance with the K15 is that if I connect that to the TA-66 and have the speakers on, I can't control individual outputs when selecting 'PO'. Some hilarity today as REM starts bursting out of the speakers at stupidly loud volumes when trying to use the TA-66 (made me jump out of my skin). Problem is I always used to leave the old speakers on all the time so now I'll need to change this behaviour if I want to have the K15 connected to the TA-66.
  • I did know this in advance but the K15's network streaming options seems a bit weak, as it only supports Roon & Airplay. So I can't currently play music from my server via Plex, Jellyfin, DNLA or Airsonic. The local storage is a good idea and I like the UI when stuff is playing. However the manual states you can only change the K15's display (i.e. VU meters etc.) on network streaming, or local playback. Not USB, or optical etc. Shame.

My K13 shows v52 for firmware. The K15 v136. I can see a newer V142 for the K15, but nothing for the K13 on Fiio Support pages. Where do you download the K13's firmware from?

Overall I am so impressed and really happy with this purchase. Taking out the HD 600's and then plugging my modded HD 6XX's into the TA-66 and settling down to Spotify tonight was absolute paradise.

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Timber said:
  • One annoyance with the K15 is that if I connect that to the TA-66 and have the speakers on, I can't control individual outputs when selecting 'PO'. Some hilarity today as REM starts bursting out of the speakers at stupidly loud volumes when trying to use the TA-66 (made me jump out of my skin). Problem is I always used to leave the old speakers on all the time so now I'll need to change this behaviour if I want to have the K15 connected to the TA-66.
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How are you connecting them both?
 
Angst said:
How are you connecting them both?
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The MR3's I purchased XLR (F) to TRS 6.35mm cables to use the balanced out. Then for the TA-66 it's RCA cables. So it means if I put the K15 on Pre-out, or god forbid line-out to listen to the TA-66 on headphones I then potentially send a really loud signal to both the TA-66 and MR3 speakers.

Would be nice if I could select them on the menu; i.e. Pre-out to ALL, or RCA only and so on. Not really a complaint, but I'm going to have to avoid leaving my speakers on all the time and change a long-standing habit. Or just use the K13 for the TA-66 as that isn't wired up to the speakers.
 
Dont the mr3's have power/volume controls on the front so they can just be powered off when not in use?

But yea it would be nice if you could select the xlr or rca output to have both connected.
 
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Angst said:
Dont the mr3's have power/volume controls on the front so they can just be powered off when not in use?

But yea it would be nice if you could select the xlr or rca output to have both connected.
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Yes it does. But on the old Edifier speakers it was an analog pot with a clear indicator for where it was set. Whereas the MR3s have this multifunction button, that I guess is digital and no indicator on it.

Over the years with the E7/9, X7, K5, K11, K7 selecting pre-out always meant speakers only.

Raymond Lin said:
Sounds like the stand out amp there is the TA-66 with your headphones.
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It is. Don't get me wrong the 600/6XX do sound brilliant on the two Fiio's, but for music that tube amp sound is amazing.

I do think this setup is reasonably optimised. The K15 and K13 have a slightly different sound profile and an array of connections. Still need to try some things like running the K13 into the K15. And maybe try the iFi CAN before packing it up. But I'm looking forward to enjoying it all.
 
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I've spent some more time with the Fiio boxes last night which cemented some further thoughts.

  • The Fiio K13 is a bargain for what it is. With everything arriving at the same time I hadn't appreciated the individual boxes as much, but for nearly half the price on the K15 it goes toe-to-toe with it.
  • I also was watching some Disney+ last night (Windows 11 App); Star Wars: Episode II. The K13 even standalone really shone. That bass and slightly fuller sound really works in this scenario.
  • I also hooked up the K13 to the K15 (via RCA, I don't currently have a dual XLR to 4.4mm cable) and the sound of the K13 is improved even more. The amp in the K15 is clearly better. It's a lovely combo.
  • I spent some time hooking both K13 and K15 to the Xduoo TA-66 and it's hard to really tell them apart as I can't really A-B test them, volume match or remove cable easily. But I do think that better bass response on the K13 is there on the tubes and the tubes draws upon some of the DAC's tuning/characteristics. Which is good news as I can leave the K13 plugged into the TA-66 and not have surprise volume moments on the K15.
  • I switched the K15 between PO and Pre this morning and had a volume jump from 20 to 65 (luckily it was only a Windows test playing on the speakers) so I'm guessing the K15 remembers individual volume for each source/output?
  • I also hooked the iFi Zen CAN Signature HD 6XX to the K13 and wow did this sound great too. I mean it always did, but I think it's even better than when plugged into the iFi Zen DAC Signature. The iFi CAN Signature & K15 (K13 being the DAC) get so close to each other to the point I'm struggling to tell them apart.
  • I hadn't appreciated but the K15 can run quite warm compared to the K13.
I think a Youtuber in one of the reviews said that the Topping DX5 II (and it's probably applicable to the K13 too) was the 95% which is good enough for most and what you're then chasing is the remaining 5%. Based on all this playing around with some entry-level and mid-fi DAC/AMPs I think that's probably true.

Anyway I'll stop prattling on now!
 
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Soundpeats H3 - Rather nice improvement in the midrange and bass detail over the Air5 Pro, less need to use a custom EQ on them but the upper end range still feels a little processed. As far as TWS buds go though, very good and very comfortable. Great quality tips included too.
 
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I enjoyed the first overall ranking list The Headphone Show did. They do miss DMS for me. I know he's doing work with LTT and therefore choose to leave, but he kind of stood out. Also not sure this sort of list needs an annual release every twelve months in that they just cover a lot of old ground.

I've not paid huge attention to the HEDD D1 because I was stuck in audio gear hell, but even then noticed the reviews have been very positive.
 
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Listener's opinion kinda skewed the averages to the point where there is no S tier in the end. One can see him as an outlier in a graph and I am sure he represents a portion of the population, but in a group of 3 people that kinda does skewed the result a little too much for me, to the point where the final result isn't really that accurate or reflective of the whole.

I think it is probably better to see what each reviewer like in the past compared to my own taste and go off from that.
 
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Listener pretty much wrecked that list, his opinions are so different to the other two it makes no sense. A good example is the Hifiman Arya Stealth, which Cameron rates as an 8, yet Listener gives it a ridiculous 2.8 - I know which one I would trust and it isn't Listener.
 
I have not listened to the HE1000se for a couple weeks now as been doing heavy speaker listening instead as I wanted to see how much the new tubes adapt over heavy use (I'm on over 100 hours now) and after the first 20 hours or so I think it's done curing the innards of the tubes. K13 R2R bass impact is all there now and tonight put on the HE1000se and yes the upper end sparkle is still there but there is no obvious sign of brightness, even good brightness which I know some don't like as it's too bright for them but I don't mind, it's kind of weird in a good way as all the sparkle is there if the song has it, and that tube and R2R harmonics makes for a really analogue experience that is as good as the mastering of the song is. When acoustic music is playing there is this massive expanse of "space" all around my head that is not present with the K13 or X9 or any other DAC I have heard

The HD600 is not capable of presenting details or soundstage to this kind of level, even if its midrange is great.


The Sendy Audio Egret will not be arriving until middle to end of Jan due to stock apparently, so am looking forward to that.
 
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rids57 said:
Listener pretty much wrecked that list, his opinions are so different to the other two it makes no sense. A good example is the Hifiman Arya Stealth, which Cameron rates as an 8, yet Listener gives it a ridiculous 2.8 - I know which one I would trust and it isn't Listener.
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There is more sensitive to treble and there is “find any treble = bad” and he sits really close to to the latter to the point that his tastes is very far from mine. I find most headphones too dark and always want more treble.
 
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