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General Headphone Audio
- Thread starter garyfl
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Caporegime
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I had not plan for this when I woke up this morning....but since I am still looking for a CD player/transport for my Vinyl set up...and one of my biggest gripe with the new Fiio is the tray loader....
I could not pass this up for basically half price. Will go into the K13 R2R DAC.
A new top loader with every digital output known to man for £330.
p.s. they also have the Fiio Warmer for like £180 ! There are a lot of bargains in the sales section.
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Right I've now got a dedicated desktop mic on the way because the 2 mics I have tested with both wired and wireless via adapter work on the DX1 II but not on the R3 leading me to believe either my R3 is faulty or it requires a dedicated wired mic or headset as opposed to adapted mics like what I own. The DX1 II seems nic agnostic and just works with whatever as long as it's a 4 pole connector.
If the 3rd mic doesn't work on it then a faulty R3 likely is the problem but will see this evening what's what.
With the DX1 II mic input though I have to set the gain in Windows to 80% in order to minimise the electrical buzz I can hear recording lossless audio via sound recorder. It's faint but there is some buzzing audible when I'm not speaking. This is not an issue for gaming use because you'll never hear it as you're not recording your voice etc but using it for podcasting and stuff it could be an issue.
I wanted to compare the dedicated mic input of the R3 to see if the buzz on the DX is because it's a hybrid port doing all in one.
I'll publish my review regardless of mic input outcome and mention all this with samples after tonight's final round of testing.
If the 3rd mic doesn't work on it then a faulty R3 likely is the problem but will see this evening what's what.
With the DX1 II mic input though I have to set the gain in Windows to 80% in order to minimise the electrical buzz I can hear recording lossless audio via sound recorder. It's faint but there is some buzzing audible when I'm not speaking. This is not an issue for gaming use because you'll never hear it as you're not recording your voice etc but using it for podcasting and stuff it could be an issue.
I wanted to compare the dedicated mic input of the R3 to see if the buzz on the DX is because it's a hybrid port doing all in one.
I'll publish my review regardless of mic input outcome and mention all this with samples after tonight's final round of testing.
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In Silver, or at least that's all I can see on there. Very nice prices as you say. I need to buy an AM5 motherboard (again) so trying to keep spending down atm.
Given the descriptions; cosmetic damage, accessories missing, box opened; I wonder if some of this is just them selling on Amazon and getting returns?
Caporegime
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Oh the warmer, yeah, its not perfect.
Mine has no marks, all bits still there.
There is a black one that is factory refurb for £380.
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Yep, very cool. As you say definitely bargains to be had. The K13 particularly at those prices is an absolute bargain. I've had a bit of a renaissance with it in the last few days using it as a DAC for the iFi CAN/OTL, or even sometimes just on headphone out for gaming.
Caporegime
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I am going to pair it with that, will look forward to see how it sounds!
This will be my end game CD player "machine", I hope with 1 fewer moving mechanism, it will last and last. I really can't imagine I would upgrade from this, if even does Airplay.
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They do have an amazon store, its where i bought the EF400 from, so i would assume so.
Caporegime
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Bargains!!!
£430 get you the Arya Stealth with K13 R2R. £850 would get you the Shangling CD, K13 and Arya Organic. The Organic at one point was over £1k alone!
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I ended up buying both the K11 R2R and K13 in that clearance sale to compare to the EF400. If I don't like them, I won't make a loss selling them on.
The K11 turned up today, first impressions are that in NOS mode, it sounds much closer to the EF400 in OS mode than it's NOS mode. When I switch the EF400 into NOS mode, it gets fuzzier, and the K11 is just cleaner and can't match its sound. So I guess, as I thought before, the benefit of R2R is that its better when it performs worse. Obviously it doesn't sound better for all music, it all falls to pieces on very busy tracks, but for older tracks that were mastered on systems that were much worse than the super-clean and resolving modern ones, adding back in that extra distortion that was just expected back then helps. I guess it's kind of like playing retro games on a CRT vs a modern high-res LCD.
The K11 turned up today, first impressions are that in NOS mode, it sounds much closer to the EF400 in OS mode than it's NOS mode. When I switch the EF400 into NOS mode, it gets fuzzier, and the K11 is just cleaner and can't match its sound. So I guess, as I thought before, the benefit of R2R is that its better when it performs worse. Obviously it doesn't sound better for all music, it all falls to pieces on very busy tracks, but for older tracks that were mastered on systems that were much worse than the super-clean and resolving modern ones, adding back in that extra distortion that was just expected back then helps. I guess it's kind of like playing retro games on a CRT vs a modern high-res LCD.
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Yea I remember there being some issues with the k11's amp and it sounded noticeably different/worse than when I ran it's line out to an external one before. If the k13 fixes that issue then that's worth it I guess, especially at only £145.
It's just irritating, I've not liked how anything sounds so far as much as I do the ef400 but it's got so many issues that make it impractical. I started a return for the first one because I thought it was faulty and bought a replacement, but it has the same issue. The toroidal transformer hums, to the point where it's obvious when it's on while sitting at the desk. The speakers also pop when I turn it on if the speaker amp is already powered.
That's actually quite a neat little unit. The LEDs underneath remind me a little bit of the similar light pattern hidden under the APOS x Gremlin tubes. This is more useful given it's pre-amp, SE & balanced and can use RCAs. Also looks like it could even take a stab at powering something like the DT 880 (600Ohms) given it gets over 100mw @ 600Ohms. Certainly a potential entry point into tubes.
That said I kind of agree with Zeos it has a very slight unfinished look, but at the same time is just more interesting looking than the usual Xduoo grey/red combo so many of their products have. Albeit Zeos starts comparing it to the MT-02 (which included a DAC) when in reality this looks very similar to the older MH-02 just in the new case (again something a bit of prep would have solved).
Or using an upscaler, i.e. Retrotink, OSSC etc. I feel like these modern R2R's are 'shaders' trying to mimic the CRT look.
But I did remember watching a YT review once of the K13 R2R where the reviewer did state it is more a bit more resolving and not as smooth as the Warmer (probably obvious given the Warmers tube-stage). I've only ever run my K13 in NOS mode, because I suspect running it in OS is just going to get very close to a DS DAC in sound and maybe defeat some of the purpose of the R2R bit. I haven't heard other R2R DACs so I'm limited in that regards, but I did a lot of A-B against the burr-brown iFi Zen Signature DAC (V1 - with the voltage quirks & both as DACs only) and it felt like the Zen was as warm and smooth as the R2R. Or at least it was so close that it was nuanced. Certainly the K13 was more resolving and maybe that lack of detail added to my perception. But it wasn't night-and-day difference and goes against the results if you do an internet search on this stuff. I think the K13 had more soundstage though.
Now again if I went to the effort of blind-testing it might be I'd realise some of this is my mind playing tricks, but it does make me think there are more flavours of R2R implementations out there, which I think you allude to. Equally though a lot of the reviews do seem to nearly always use Hifiman Planars, which I don't and that might be some of it too. I mainly use the HD 6x0 and maybe that also limits some of the affects of Fiio's R2R.
I agree, my personal perception of Fiio's R2R so far using my HD650s, is that it sits awkwardly somewhere in the middle ground between the EF400(which seems to be agreed online as having that proper warm R2R DAC sound) and a DS DAC. It's not as clean as a DS DAC, but it also doesn't seem to be as warm/soft as the EF400 can be, so admittedly, being harsh on it, it's just kind of the "worst" of both worlds I guess.
The soundstage and holographic qualities people talk about with R2R online, I think that is just people misinterpreting the effect of the added distortion. As I mentioned before, the differences are not night and day, but they are instantly noticeable when swapping.
However, I still think having a DS DAC and then having both a good tube amp and a solid-state amp is probably the optimal solution if you don't mind the cost and have the desk space.
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Caporegime
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I have a few albums in both CD and vinyl, so could compare them with the K13 r2r using the Shanling as the Transport. But the mastering of the record might be different between CD and Vinyl so not sure how worthwhiile this exercise would be.
That's where an amp like the MT-02 I linked to above comes in, a tube amp that connects from an already clean and resolving DS DAC/amp (X8) via RCA, which can then RCA out to another amp down the line if desired.
Then you get that tube sound when desired, or that crystal clear resolution but still smooth sound from the X8.
I think many choose R2R in their cheaper variants today because it is less faff than tubes, and with tube amps it's not common to find an amp that implements them at least to a level where there is less headache, such as tube hum noise control, an actual ground loop terminal at the back so you can do away with interference, visual aesthetics. Seems a great little amp with enough power for under £150 or so.
The other upside of having a pre-amp in front of the tube amp is that it can be volume levelled via a proper pre-amp, meaning the sensitive volume dial on the MT-02 can be worked around by giving a lower volume output to the RCA ports from say the X8, or just leave the dial alone on the MT-02 and manage volume from the X8. I've had the Warmer so am slightly familiar with tube sound, but never heard a tube headphone amp yet, so am intrigued by this.
The third upside is that it has RCA output as well, so could connect those to the RCA in of the PA7 power amp and get a fully looped chain giving tube sound to the speakers, and if I keep the volume dial on the tube amp fixed again as above, and PA7 remains in bypass mode, all volume control is still handled by the X8. So for flavour and tube warmth, flick to RCA, for resolution/clarity etc, flick to XLR.
Seems a fairly neat way to get the best of both worlds.
No rush here though, I will explore the idea in the new year I think!
Then you get that tube sound when desired, or that crystal clear resolution but still smooth sound from the X8.
I think many choose R2R in their cheaper variants today because it is less faff than tubes, and with tube amps it's not common to find an amp that implements them at least to a level where there is less headache, such as tube hum noise control, an actual ground loop terminal at the back so you can do away with interference, visual aesthetics. Seems a great little amp with enough power for under £150 or so.
The other upside of having a pre-amp in front of the tube amp is that it can be volume levelled via a proper pre-amp, meaning the sensitive volume dial on the MT-02 can be worked around by giving a lower volume output to the RCA ports from say the X8, or just leave the dial alone on the MT-02 and manage volume from the X8. I've had the Warmer so am slightly familiar with tube sound, but never heard a tube headphone amp yet, so am intrigued by this.
The third upside is that it has RCA output as well, so could connect those to the RCA in of the PA7 power amp and get a fully looped chain giving tube sound to the speakers, and if I keep the volume dial on the tube amp fixed again as above, and PA7 remains in bypass mode, all volume control is still handled by the X8. So for flavour and tube warmth, flick to RCA, for resolution/clarity etc, flick to XLR.
Seems a fairly neat way to get the best of both worlds.
No rush here though, I will explore the idea in the new year I think!
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