Genuine Concern or Lazy Mums?

[Haggisman]

childless, cynical male

It shows

I hate to play the "you don't understand unless you've got kids" card, but in all honesty, you just don't understand how hard work it is until you've experienced it - I was the same.

I love spending time with my little boy, but I look after him all day over the weekend while my partner works, and it's a nice break to get back to work on the Monday!

Now he's only 18 months, so he needs watching like a hawk - I'm sure when they're a couple of years older they're not quite as intense, but it's still not the easy ride you're making it out to be.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Stay at home mothers absolutely have it easy. What is difficult about washing and cooking? A machine does the former and cooking is enjoyable and not especially difficult. Oh sure, a screaming kid is not easy, but they don't scream all the time and you can at least take them out places or sit them in front of Sesame street for 30 minutes whilst you relax. I'd also say raising your kid is infinitely more rewarding than most jobs.

 

[Edrof]

I hate to play the "you don't understand unless you've got kids" card, but in all honesty, you just don't understand how hard work it is until you've experienced it - I was the same.

This man speaks the truth. My second daughter was born a couple of days ago. Hard, hard work.

There are lots of generalisations being flung about in this thread. As with most things in life, everyone and every family dynamic is different, so having a rule for all is pretty blinkered and those that say "all whatevers are whatever" are only making themselves look a bit thick.

 

[agnes]

My sister is a single mum to 2 wonderful boys. Yes she made mistakes, but jesus has she gone through hell to make sure those boys get the best start in life. And in all honesty, I don't think she can wait until they go off to school haha.

They are 3 and 1.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

This man speaks the truth. My second daughter was born a couple of days ago. Hard, hard work.

There are lots of generalisations being flung about in this thread. As with most things in life, everyone and every family dynamic is different, so having a rule for all is pretty blinkered and those that say "all whatevers are whatever" are only making themselves look a bit thick.

There is nothing "thick" about it at all. We have to generalise, or we'd be so bogged down in discussing every possible scenario, we'd never make any progress. It's absolutely fine to generalise/stereotype as long as you appreciate that is exactly what it is, and not an absolute rule.

 

[Edrof]

There is nothing "thick" about it at all. We have to generalise [...] It's absolutely fine to generalise/stereotype as long as you appreciate that is exactly what it is, and not an absolute rule.

How puzzling. We don't have to do anything of the sort. In addition, the sweeping generalisations in statements like the following example are, frankly, easily derided.

Stay at home mothers absolutely have it easy. What is difficult about washing and cooking? A machine does the former and cooking is enjoyable and not especially difficult. Oh sure, a screaming kid is not easy, but they don't scream all the time and you can at least take them out places or sit them in front of Sesame street for 30 minutes whilst you relax.

 

[Third Opinion]

I have just had to suffer the humiliation of going into the Jobcentre.

I was amazed how many toddlers running around, and babies screaming in push chairs unattended whilst the mothers attended work focused interviews.

If they can't get the kids looked after whilst they attend the jobcentre interview , how the heck are they going to work?

Especially as we have the highest child care costs in Europe.

 

[Skidder]

My eldest starts school this term and I think he is really ready for the next step and a bit more structure. He is old for his year (5 today) and it has felt for a while like school would be good for him. I hope I am right.

 

[isonomicjedi]

Why are all these youngsters at pre-school and school?
Surely they should be climbing chimneys or selling newspapers on the streets or pick-pocketing by that age.

Get them bloody well working.

 

[wannabedamned]

Stay at home mothers absolutely have it easy. What is difficult about washing and cooking? A machine does the former and cooking is enjoyable and not especially difficult. Oh sure, a screaming kid is not easy, but they don't scream all the time and you can at least take them out places or sit them in front of Sesame street for 30 minutes whilst you relax. I'd also say raising your kid is infinitely more rewarding than most jobs.

Being a brain surgeon is easy all you have to do is operate on someones brain.

Wash your hands, Open them up, fix the issue. Jobs done.

 

[krooton]

The September-August school year makes things a bit weirder here.

In SA you started primary school at the start of whatever year you were 6 at the start of. You could also attend pre-primary school for the 2 years prior to that.

So I started primary school at 6 year old in 89, and that meant that all my classmates and I were 18 by the end of year 12.

Really bright kids could skip a year, really slow kids could be kept back.

 

[Haggisman]

I have just had to suffer the humiliation of going into the Jobcentre.

I was amazed how many toddlers running around, and babies screaming in push chairs unattended whilst the mothers attended work focused interviews.

If they can't get the kids looked after whilst they attend the jobcentre interview , how the heck are they going to work?

Especially as we have the highest child care costs in Europe.

Yup, there's absolutely no point in someone on minimum wage going into full time work if they have to pay for child care...

Child care costs (5 days @ £35/day) - £175/week
Min. wage @ £6.31, 40 hours/week - £225/week

So £50 difference, without taking into account the loss of benefits due to income...

 

[Edrof]

Alongside working from home, I'm a stay-at-home dad. The money I save by doing this equals a modest wage, by itself. We compared recently with friends that have a child at nursery for four days per week and it was something like £14,000 per annum.

 

[scorza]

Alongside working from home, I'm a stay-at-home dad. The money I save by doing this equals a modest wage, by itself. We compared recently with friends that have a child at nursery for four days per week and it was something like £14,000 per annum.

Which reminds me, on the "How to be a German" programme I was talking about earlier, it cost less than £5 a day to send a child to kindergarten.

 

[DogsBody]

The September-August school year makes things a bit weirder here.

In SA you started primary school at the start of whatever year you were 6 at the start of. You could also attend pre-primary school for the 2 years prior to that.

So I started primary school at 6 year old in 89, and that meant that all my classmates and I were 18 by the end of year 12.

Really bright kids could skip a year, really slow kids could be kept back.

Not really weirder, we do exactly the same as you but just 4 months earlier, so by the end of school all students in same year are 16 as well.
So not really sure what your point is here

 

[mame]

Yup, there's absolutely no point in someone on minimum wage going into full time work if they have to pay for child care...

Child care costs (5 days @ £35/day) - £175/week
Min. wage @ £6.31, 40 hours/week - £225/week

So £50 difference, without taking into account the loss of benefits due to income...

Someone in that situation would get 80% of the childcare costs paid for them. I'm not sure what the going rate for child care is but my daughter's is £125 a week so it would be about £25 to pay.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

How puzzling. We don't have to do anything of the sort. In addition, the sweeping generalisations in statements like the following example are, frankly, easily derided.

Of course we have to generalise, life would be impossible without generalisation. A simple example is that we assume the people we pass when walking through a busy high-street are not going to try to kill us. You don't consciously evaluate each person, you make assumption, you generalise.

Equally you can assume that in general, most parents experience a fairly similar experience in raising their children. If you were making government policy, you'd use that generalisation as the basis of your policy. You'd not examine every parents circumstances.

And I welcome your attempt to deride my comments in an intelligent and meaningful manner.

 

[elmarko]

Stay at home mothers absolutely have it easy. What is difficult about washing and cooking? A machine does the former and cooking is enjoyable and not especially difficult. Oh sure, a screaming kid is not easy, but they don't scream all the time and you can at least take them out places or sit them in front of Sesame street for 30 minutes whilst you relax. I'd also say raising your kid is infinitely more rewarding than most jobs.

Have you tried being a stay at home parent?.

Regarding the pretty poor original post (baseless assumptions & daily mail style rhetoric).

To determine if it is indeed a good idea or not (having children enter formal education at a younger or older age) then I'd say comparing the comparative performance (not just academic, but a full longitudinal study observing criminality, health, obesity, mental health disorders, divorce, addiction rates) from a number of culturally similar nations (with similar poverty/crime rates) to determine if the end results are significantly different or not.

The key to engaging a young child in learning is making it fun & stress free - by making it mandatory the evidence seems to lend to this having a net negative side-effect, by diminishing the child's natural joy of learning.

I used to love reading & learning at home, but the forced nature of school turned something I enjoyed into a chore, a task which needed to be completed within a set time-frame.

It's taken me a few years since leaving education to really start to enjoy learning again in the same way I did when I was a young child.

 

[Skidder]

Stay at home mothers absolutely have it easy. What is difficult about washing and cooking? A machine does the former and cooking is enjoyable and not especially difficult. Oh sure, a screaming kid is not easy, but they don't scream all the time and you can at least take them out places or sit them in front of Sesame street for 30 minutes whilst you relax. I'd also say raising your kid is infinitely more rewarding than most jobs.

Really? my wife is a full time mum (although also doing an OU masters to keep her brain firing) and I think it is very hard indeed. I honestly think my work, which is challenging and stressful in bucket-loads, is much easier. I wouldn't swap with her. She had a pretty amazing career with alternatives/investment banking before and definitely finds full time mothering more of a challenge.

 

[Haggisman]

Someone in that situation would get 80% of the childcare costs paid for them. I'm not sure what the going rate for child care is but my daughter's is £125 a week so it would be about £25 to pay.

Fair enough - I didn't actually realise it was that generous. When I looked into it before it was around 20% (I was probably looking in the wrong place )