Getting a degree... less worth by the year.

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Interesting program on ITV now comparing the current earnings of those with degrees and those without, and whether it still holds true that spending time and money on a degree actually pays off or not. According to studies, graduates are not about 3x worse off over their lifetime (in comparison to what the potential greater earnings were a few years ago over a non-degree worker) because of the costs of studying, and the high number of graduates that are now being churned out. graduates are now finding it increasingly difficult to erase debt, get a decent job... and many are feeling that their degree, though seemingly a great idea at the time, just isn't paying off.

Just wondering if this is proving true for any recent graduates at the moment or if any graduates maybe regret doing their degree on some level, or are finding things harder than maybe friends who didn't go to uni?
 
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I haven't the slightest regret. It defined me, and I am shiny-eyed at the prospect of going back next year...

I think the very least it stretched me, in ways that working life would never offer. It has afforded me opportunities that I simply wouldn't have had.

I think the problem is that people are constantly measuring 'success' by the pay packet - it seems to be the only criteria under which it has been suggested that degrees are 'devalued'
 
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cleanbluesky said:
I haven't the slightest regret. It defined me, and I am shiny-eyed at the prospect of going back next year...

I think the very least it stretched me, in ways that working life would never offer. It has afforded me opportunities that I simply wouldn't have had.

I think the problem is that people are constantly measuring 'success' by the pay packet - it seems to be the only criteria under which it has been suggested that degrees are 'devalued'

Agreed... but for many people (and what these sort of statistic are based on), success IS defined in your pay-packet... in an increasingly material society that's what the vast majority of people are worried about in order to maintain quality of life, especially considering they financial risk they place themselves in to get said degree.

Just out of interest... what sort of debt will you be in by the time you finish uni and what do you want to do with your degree?
 
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Thats a good point, there's a lot more to university than the end result, a well paid job. I don't think a value can be placed on the experience itself, the lifestyle rocks.
 
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Having a regular degree is just not good enough now. You need more than that to get into the occupations that people expect with a simple bachelors, if you want to take that route.

Alternatively people who spend those 3 years gaining experience on the job rather than at uni can find that very rewarding, it just depends on the field as to what will be more appropriate.

My current degree is infinitely more difficult than the one I was pursuing in the UK. I am also glad I went back to it slightly later than at 18, as now I know more about what is needed afterwards and what will give the edge. I believe it will pay off. You have to think ahead instead of believing a 40k job will present itself at graduation.
 
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The reason for this is probably because lots more people are going to university and doing **** subjects :)

Besides, it's not all about money. Uni is so much more than that.
 
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Beansprout said:
The reason for this is probably because lots more people are going to university and doing **** subjects :)

Besides, it's not all about money. Uni is so much more than that.


Really? I don't pay $35k a year unless I think I am going to get it back and more.

I enjoy it, but it is not going to define my existence or shape my personality a great deal.
 
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crystaline said:
Really? I don't pay $35k a year unless I think I am going to get it back and more.

I enjoy it, but it is not going to define my existence or shape my personality a great deal.

OT but can I ask why you choose to pay $35k a year? and on what degree?
 
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well i already have a job offer and haven't even graduated yet so i think it is worth it, for me it started as a stepping stone into a career but living at a uni and the social aspect will probably be the thing im most pleased with the decision togo
 
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trojan698 said:
OT but can I ask why you choose to pay $35k a year? and on what degree?

Because I have a generous scholarship and this place is very 'old boys club' with something I want to get into.
They also have some amazing teaching on things I just don't think I would get elsewhere.
 
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Richdog said:
Just out of interest... what sort of debt will you be in by the time you finish uni and what do you want to do with your degree?

I endured £0 debt throughout Uni. When I return I expect to stack up £10k.

I know people who have occurred up to £30k debt for their undergrad. I know people who have occurred £15k debt post-grad.

I know people who have £20-60k debts without going to uni. Debt is an epidemic.
 
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cleanbluesky said:
I endured £0 debt throughout Uni. When I return I expect to stack up £10k.

I know people who have occurred up to £30k debt for their undergrad. I know people who have occurred £15k debt post-grad.

I know people who have £20-60k debts without going to uni. Debt is an epidemic.

Granted, debt is easily incurred without a degree, though the study is really comparing ideal and rather straightforward situations (ie: sensible degree vs non-degree worker). Out of pure interest, what degree are you doing and what do you want to do with it?
 
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Academia VS Business

Its an interesting subject, and one that I have discussed many times in the past. Everyone seems to think that "getting a job" and making money are the most important things to be successful in life.

Well, you can chuck that idea out the window. Because, IMHO, they go hand in hand.

The main priority of any good business is sustainability and flexibility within its main objective : making money for providing goods or services. It doesn't care about other businesses necessarily, especially if other businesses are competition and reduce the effectiveness of your own.

The main priority of academia, is research. Although great scope is given to teaching, it is the individuals who eventually take up the torch and head out in their own personal directions to take whatever science or art that little bit further than before.

Where academia takes us, is anyones' guess. Some of it has value. Some research projects have higher value or more influence than other projects. However, the purpose of research is the common goals of humanity - to move forward.

Where business takes us, is the practical application of research to the real world. Business is about survival. It is practical in so much that the bottom line, cash flow, is the most important element of business. But the entire business can be influence by the analyses and practiced developed within academia.

The biggest problem that faces academia, is, ironically, its main weakness - funding. Because academics tend not to be business minded, they don't necessarily have the skills to use the knowledge they have gained in a business setting, and have to get money, usually by proxy, such as via the government.

With this in mind, most people assume that money is the most important thing in life, purely in survival terms. And it is this bias towards the business side, rather than the academic side, that leads to biases in people's opinions of every day life. The bling culture has nothing to do with academia, and everything through social status through material wealth/possession.

And yet, that material wealth/possession is in constant flux, is ever changing, as do we, to keep working, our businesses keep changing, the markets keep changing. Nothing is set in stone. Business practices we take for granted now will be shunned in the future. The dot com bubble burst. Nothing is certain.

In which case, how can anyone seriously consider that the only purpose of life is a 9-5 job, where you do a minimum of what is required for your job to not get fired, then come home and blob in front of the tv watching soap operas?

To be truly in academia, you have to be in business, to survive, to understand how things work, to be able to sell your ideas, to appeal to people how things work, to communicate.

To be truly in business, you have to be in academia, to know your business, your area, your subject inside out, and to have the power to push it forward, to have the edge, to have the vision.

So, you are probably going to work, maybe 50 years of your life. Are you ready to rush straight into business and be set up with the attitudes and weakness of business from day one? Or are you going to go back into academia for a while, until you can at least start to think about where you, your business, your industry is going?

Personally, I am in both - and I am acutely aware of the strengths and weakness es of both philosophies. Both have their purists. But the smart man plays both games to the best of his ability, and builds teams that are able to take advantage of both worlds.
 
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Richdog said:
Granted, debt is easily incurred without a degree, though the study is really comparing ideal and rather straightforward situations (ie: sensible degree vs non-degree worker). Out of pure interest, what degree are you doing and what do you want to do with it?

I have a degree in psychology, all going well I should return next year to study a 'foundation certificate' (an unfortunate requirement of this particular college) in Psychotherapy and Counselling and the an MA in the Integrative Counselling and Psychotherapy.

Once I have started the MA, I will start building a private practice and achieve a placement... My idea from there is to push myself into self-employment, if only because therapy is something that it is possible to make people pay a lot of money for.

I have lots of things i plan to do in the field. But then will come with time.

If you compare the potential earning that I would have had without my degree, versus those at I may get at the end of my education - they are possibly equal but the two paths have taken me to different places and I like who I am now, and how I have been defined by my current path.
 
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crystaline said:
Really? I don't pay $35k a year unless I think I am going to get it back and more.
Oh, of course - that's what I believe - but certain people (perhaps when talking about people who'd probably never really be in high paid jobs *anyway*) will try and warp the argument into "it's all about money" to force their view across :)
 
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Beansprout said:
Oh, of course - that's what I believe - but certain people (perhaps when talking about people who'd probably never really be in high paid jobs *anyway*) will try and warp the argument into "it's all about money" to force their view across :)

Could you explain that better, are you referring to 'certain people' as those with or without degrees?
 
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Shoseki said:
Academia VS Business

Its an interesting subject, and one that I have discussed many times in the past. Everyone seems to think that "getting a job" and making money are the most important things to be successful in life.

Well, you can chuck that idea out the window. Because, IMHO, they go hand in hand.

The main priority of any good business is sustainability and flexibility within its main objective : making money for providing goods or services. It doesn't care about other businesses necessarily, especially if other businesses are competition and reduce the effectiveness of your own.

The main priority of academia, is research. Although great scope is given to teaching, it is the individuals who eventually take up the torch and head out in their own personal directions to take whatever science or art that little bit further than before.

Where academia takes us, is anyones' guess. Some of it has value. Some research projects have higher value or more influence than other projects. However, the purpose of research is the common goals of humanity - to move forward.

Where business takes us, is the practical application of research to the real world. Business is about survival. It is practical in so much that the bottom line, cash flow, is the most important element of business. But the entire business can be influence by the analyses and practiced developed within academia.

The biggest problem that faces academia, is, ironically, its main weakness - funding. Because academics tend not to be business minded, they don't necessarily have the skills to use the knowledge they have gained in a business setting, and have to get money, usually by proxy, such as via the government.

With this in mind, most people assume that money is the most important thing in life, purely in survival terms. And it is this bias towards the business side, rather than the academic side, that leads to biases in people's opinions of every day life. The bling culture has nothing to do with academia, and everything through social status through material wealth/possession.

And yet, that material wealth/possession is in constant flux, is ever changing, as do we, to keep working, our businesses keep changing, the markets keep changing. Nothing is set in stone. Business practices we take for granted now will be shunned in the future. The dot com bubble burst. Nothing is certain.

In which case, how can anyone seriously consider that the only purpose of life is a 9-5 job, where you do a minimum of what is required for your job to not get fired, then come home and blob in front of the tv watching soap operas?

To be truly in academia, you have to be in business, to survive, to understand how things work, to be able to sell your ideas, to appeal to people how things work, to communicate.

To be truly in business, you have to be in academia, to know your business, your area, your subject inside out, and to have the power to push it forward, to have the edge, to have the vision.

So, you are probably going to work, maybe 50 years of your life. Are you ready to rush straight into business and be set up with the attitudes and weakness of business from day one? Or are you going to go back into academia for a while, until you can at least start to think about where you, your business, your industry is going?

Personally, I am in both - and I am acutely aware of the strengths and weakness es of both philosophies. Both have their purists. But the smart man plays both games to the best of his ability, and builds teams that are able to take advantage of both worlds.

Good post. Without academia the amount if sklled individuals that sustain the economy will gradually decrease... without business the strength of the economy will slowy decrease... it's a double-edged sword. As you say though you do get many individuals who are educated to a good level without a degree, who despite putting a great deal of effort into maintaining an increasing pay-packet that also making a real effort to learn to the same level as a degree without having a degree... gaining the same level of knowlede just in a more long-winded and "on-the-job" way.

cleanbluesky said:
I have a degree in psychology, all going well I should return next year to study a 'foundation certificate' (an unfortunate requirement of this particular college) in Psychotherapy and Counselling and the an MA in the Integrative Counselling and Psychotherapy.

Once I have started the MA, I will start building a private practice and achieve a placement... My idea from there is to push myself into self-employment, if only because therapy is something that it is possible to make people pay a lot of money for.

I have lots of things i plan to do in the field. But then will come with time.

If you compare the potential earning that I would have had without my degree, versus those at I may get at the end of my education - they are possibly equal but the two paths have taken me to different places and I like who I am now, and how I have been defined by my current path.

I think psychology is one reas that would definately benefit from having a degree more than other areas (eg: I.T.). It's a specialist area that requires a lot of learning in order to understand the many complexities it deals with (and there's a LOT of theory, it was going to be my chosen degree after Journalism)... and if you're going to go down the councelling/psychologist route I think a degree is essental not only to break into that field, but to begin and maintain a successfull practise. Good luck though, hope you achieve your goal, god knows you can pscho-analyze anything to (beyond) death. :D
 
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I graduated 2 years ago with a degree then a masters and am now working part time as an administrator as most jobs related to my degree I'm either over qualified IE only want HND level or I do not have enough experience. Luckily my boss saw some potential in me an is now training me up in various skills so that I can broaden my choice of jobs or possibly put me onto a teaching course.
As said above you can not put a price on the experience, it was the time of my life and I learnt how to look after my self, my sister is still living at home having never gone to uni and still doesn't know how turn a washing machine on, she earns more than me but when it comes to her living in the real world she doesn't have a clue as she's never had to stand on her own two feet.

My parents said the difference in me was phenominal as it was literally a boy to man and the confidence and behaviour that goes with it.
 
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