getting into snowboarding - lots of questions

[rjk]

be prepared for a list of noob errors...

tried the search but cannot find a snowboarding thread or similar to this

myself and mrs rjk are keen to start learning to snowboard. a few friends of ours went last year and at a recent bbq in all this good weather, we heard some very enthusiastic comments and both decided that next year we would join them.

now, we are both complete newcomers, I have skateboarded from the age of 11 until early 20s and at least a few times a year since then until now [27 now ]

mrs rjk has had dry slope lessons a few years back so discounting this, i would imagine that we are at the same level.

in order to get to the same level as our friends who have been abroad once before, i would like to ideally know the starting points we should be looking at.

we are close to tamworth and chill factore manchester but have a dry slope in stoke, where would be the best place to start learning and how often should we have lessons?

my main questions:
how should we go about lessons and getting to a decent level before booking a holiday?

is it worth getting our own gear once we get good enough and commit to the holiday? all our friends seem to say that own gear is the way to go?

is it worth looking second hand for items such as bindings and boards?

what sort of kit list should we be considering for a snowboard holiday?
also, insurance, where do we need to look for this or would regular holiday insurance cover it?

thanks in advance

Rich

 

[touch]

how should we go about lessons and getting to a decent level before booking a holiday?

Both the dry slope and chill factore will probably offer a course of beginners lessons. Probably over 6-8 weeks. I'd go for the chill factore. You'll probably fall quite a bit for the first few times and dryslope can be pretty sore to land on.

is it worth getting our own gear once we get good enough and commit to the holiday? all our friends seem to say that own gear is the way to go?

Do your lessons first and if you both enjoy it and expect to keep it going after the holiday, then you'd be better getting your own stuff.

is it worth looking second hand for items such as bindings and boards?

Yep, boards and bindings are fine second hand, but always buy new boots.
There tends to be quite a lot of second hand ski/snowboard stuff around with very little use. People buy it and find that it's too far/inconvenient/expensive to use it frequently and forget about it. It's probably a little late to be looking now, the season finished in march/april and most people would have sold stuff they dont use back then. Have another look later in the year when people are buying new stuff for next season and getting rid of their old stuff.

what sort of kit list should we be considering for a snowboard holiday?

with the exception of the obvious board, boots, warm clothes etc:
Helmet
Goggles
Backpack (personal preference, i like to take a small one with a bottle of water and some food)
sun cream (for face+lips. You wont notice your burning in the cool temperatures but usually you'll be above the cloud line and the snow reflects light back at you, so you will get a good amount of sun.)

also, insurance, where do we need to look for this or would regular holiday insurance cover it?

You need winter sports insurance. Its usually not much more expensive than normal travel insurance.

 

[rjk]

very informative, thanks touch

if anyone else could add their input, that would be appreciated.

 

[touch]

oh, forgot to add impact shorts to the kit list. Definitely got my money's worth out of mine.

 

[mrthingyx]

As above, really.

Regarding lessons, just avoid dry slopes altogether, because the second you step on to a real piste, you'll realise how different they are. And all your dry-slope skills get instantly superseded.

With snowboarding, however, I found that getting past the first few hours is the hardest, because there is so much falling over. Because the falling takes place on the same spots (hips, bum, knees) it get very unpleasant, very quickly. If you survive the first three days, you'll be fine. My best advice would be to buy a cheap pillow and stuff it down your trousers around your hips.

After this first period, you generally know most things there are to know about snowboarding. Sure, carving is something you should probably learn, but from what I have seen on pistes, not many snowboarders go in for that, preferring instead to fool around buttering at 3mph.

The bottom line for me is that a cheap snowboarding holiday is actually better for learning than any lesson you will have after those first few days. It will probably be cheaper, too.

 

[hargi]

Id agree. I learned at xsacpe castleford. 4x1hour sessions to be honest after 3 hours I had got it. ONe good tip was if you point where you want to go with your arm thats where the board normally goes. After a while it becomes a bit like driving you just look where you want to go and it happens.
The only thing that really annoyed me with it is I still cant use the Pomm?? lifts. Its the dismounting at the top that gets me.

 

[Skillmister]

Learn to land on your elbows/forearms not your wrists Sprained both wrists twice going over backwards on a snowboard, admittedly they were made of cheese beforehand but now they are more like yoghurt. I only did 5 hour lessons at xscape before going on a holiday and i felt it was enough though. Far easier to learn when you can go down a green run or baby slope that is 300m long rather than 20m long once you've been instructed on the basics.

Wouldn't bother buying all the gear till you at least know you enjoy it.

Good luck, and enjoy turning your coccyx to dust

 

[rjk]

I spent most of my teenage years falling off a skateboard so I would say I have become well versed in falling over.

i think the plan so far is to attend around 4 hours lessons at a snowdome, rent equipment from them whilst we are doing that. I think, once we can both do it without needing instruction then it could turn into a regular recreational thing as it doesn't seem too expensive.

around £135 for lessons isnt too bad at tamworth and they have 20% off at the moment.

will probably just do that as equipment hire is included.

as mentioned, will get our own equipment if its something that becomes regular.

advice is really appreciated guys


surprised there isn't a big snowboarding thread on here, or have i missed it

 

[Begbie]

Learn to land on your elbows/forearms not your wrists Sprained both wrists twice going over backwards on a snowboard, admittedly they were made of cheese beforehand but now they are more like yoghurt. I only did 5 hour lessons at xscape before going on a holiday and i felt it was enough though. Far easier to learn when you can go down a green run or baby slope that is 300m long rather than 20m long once you've been instructed on the basics.

Wouldn't bother buying all the gear till you at least know you enjoy it.

Good luck, and enjoy turning your coccyx to dust

I agree with this, I went to the caingorms (I didn't bother getting any lessons though) and although I didn't sprain them it sure felt like it! Was in agony the whole day. Also had wind and sun burn all over my face

Brilliant though, can't wait for the season to start up

 

[Andyt_uk]

As probably mentioned already, do the learn in a day course at tamworth. I did it a few years back in the summer and it only cost me £80 or so. After that, you should be at a level where you can go on your own so take a few more trips to either of the snowdomes to get some more practise in. The more the better although they are fairly expensive so it depends how flush you're feeling.

Basically the more you do back here though, the more you'll enjoy it out there.

As for kit, I'd only recommend getting a pair of boots that are comfy and fit properly before going away the first time. Hire boots suck big time generally. You can quite often hire boards/bindings that are fairly good so I wouldn't worry about them.

 

[Gaijin]

I have skateboarded from the age of 11 until early 20s and at least a few times a year since then until now [27 now ]

I skateboarded before I boarded too, and the only thing you'll take from it is being used to being on a moving plank at speed and balance. When you start out, you'll be moving sideways for the most part and so will find it quite foreign unless you were doing lots of mental powerslides when you skated

Learning is all about understanding edges and transitioning between them, so skateboarding doesn't offer any help in this aspect.

we are close to tamworth and chill factore manchester but have a dry slope in stoke, where would be the best place to start learning and how often should we have lessons?

Put shortly, try to go to a snowdome if you can, and the more time you spend in there before you go on hols, the more you'll get out of the holiday.

I've taught about 5 people to snowboard and most of the time they are disappointed that just when they got the hang of it - it was time to go home.

At a minimum you want to be "recreational standard" which essentially means you can turn both ways (Heel to toe and vice versa) and use a drag lift and chairlift (chairlift is arguable)

is it worth getting our own gear once we get good enough and commit to the holiday? all our friends seem to say that own gear is the way to go?

Have some lessons first on hire gear and see how you go. You mightn't like it

I did a week on a hire board, knew I'd love it, and came home and smashed about 600 quid on gear.

Obviously your own gear is better, and you'll be effectively lining someone elses pocket instead of investing in your own gear. If you're affluent - go for it

is it worth looking second hand for items such as bindings and boards?

Yes, but buyer beware as per usual. If you have a shop nearby that does seconds, then that is a good place to start. I had Ocean Sports nearby to me in Brighton and they had a good run of second hand gear. You're more likely to get one in decent nick that has been serviced.

However , I'd always advise you buy boots brand new.

I'm out of the scene a few years now (not through direct choice) but step in bindings and soft bindings were the choice to be made. Step ins were convenient but not as rigid. I was a purist and wanted rigid softs.

what sort of kit list should we be considering for a snowboard holiday?

Get the essentials out of the way:

• Bags of sun cream
• Lip Sun Cream
• 1 or 2 pairs of board pants
• A decent hooded snowboard jacket with a decent waterproof rating and a lining thickness suitable for the time of year you are going. A snow skirt is mandatory in my opinion unless you enjoy being cold and wet under your clothes.
• A hydrator is a big plus especially if you have a suitable bag to fit it in.
• 2 Pairs of waterproof board gloves - they are expensive but not nearly as expensive as you'll pay for cheap guff in the resort when you accidentally leave them on the gondola
• A snowboard leash (don't be someone elses big problem on the mountain)
• Decent sunglasses with the obviously appropriate UVA/UVB ratings - a good excuse to throw money at Oakley etc.
• Decent goggles - only relevant if you think you'll be going fast enough. I'd personally get a cheap pair anyway.

also, insurance, where do we need to look for this or would regular holiday insurance cover it?

You'll need specific winter sports insurance. Available online, in Tesco and loads of other places.



Enjoy your inevitable pileup on your first chairlift

 

[Weazle]

Just to add to what others has suggested.

Gearwise, I wouldn't just buy gear for the heck of it. Most importantly is getting the right boots. If your boots don't suit you, no amount of flashy gear can correct that. So if you intend to buy hardware, buy boots first. Bindings/boards can come later and as you are a beginner, renting bindings/boards for a week or 2 is fine as you'll spend a lot of the time practicing technique rather than how smoothly your board performs.

Once you're ready to splash out on gear, then some internet research is good preparation but won't cover actual experience/trying the gear. With boots, you'll find it best to actually visit a store to try them on. Getting the best fitting boots there and then as the shops will heat mould them for you.

With bindings/boards it can be quite trial and error if you're really picky. Even though there's like general recommendations, it does boil down to personal preference. You could end up buying a couple of boards to get something you're comfortable with so actually getting to use them is recommended before purchase. Each manufacture has slight variances on how they measure board/binding stiffness, so go by them as guidelines. There's pros out there using stiffer gear for freestyle when the general gear recommendation is not very stiff.

a lot of the places like Sno!Zone at Milton Keynes has product days when the ski/snowboard season starts, its a great time to try out gear.

Join up at SCUK ( http://snowboardclub.co.uk/), get the Club membership which gets you discounts at most of the major snowboarding shops in the UK as well as discounts at the indoor slopes. Another forum to use is GoneBoarding (http://www.goneboarding.co.uk).

 

[rjk]

Last two posts are very insightful. Thanks a lot guys, really appreciate the details you've gone into

 

[Judgeneo]

The above posts put it better than I could, but just to reiterate:

You will fall over, a lot.

Get on real (or as close as) early in your learning. I think dry slopes are ok for the first lesson though, yes the feel is very different, but the very basics remain the same.

When learning practise both regular and goofy with both turn types. You will reach competence easier if you just stick to one stance, or just heel turns, but it will hurt your progress in the longer run.

Wearing a helmet is a must, I would have been knocked out once or twice while learning otherwise Even if you become very good and are confident you are not going to hurt yourself, you can't guarantee that of other slope users.

Rent a board for your first holiday at least. Purchases should go in order of boots -> Bindings -> Board for comfort reasons. Boards tend to be pretty decent at good resorts though, I don't feel I could justify purchasing one unless I was going 2 weeks a year or more.

Oh and finally, you'll love it.

 

[rjk]

So then guys

Thought i would update the thread, mainly thanking you all again for the advice.

Last week went to snowdome in tamworth and did fasttrack lessons.

mrs rjk had to do a top up lesson to get her to standard so she could do the second fast track lesson.

we both progressed quite quickly and are now recreational standard.

went again yesterday and fell a few times, i think some crash shorts may have to happen soon as i feel like ive been thrashed today.

i am linking turns well enough to get down the slope quickly, using the lifts etc
mrs rjk isnt quite there yet and is finding transitioning between edges difficult.

i think she wants to go for a top up lesson next week which is probably a good idea.


the one thing i want to learn is to 'waddle' or whatever its called to get moving in flat areas, im ok undoing my back binding and 'skating' but its just an inconvenience and i see a lot of people hopping over to the rope lift with ease.

think snowdome membership may happen also as we plan on going a fair bit at the moment and its going to work out cheaper to just get a couples discount.

i am really struggling in rental boots, just not finding them comfortable at all, so the plan is to wait until next month when next seasons stuff comes out and get a nice fitting set of boots.

both loving it so far and its nice to do something with goals as a couple even if we are progressing at different speeds

 

[semi-pro waster]

the one thing i want to learn is to 'waddle' or whatever its called to get moving in flat areas, im ok undoing my back binding and 'skating' but its just an inconvenience and i see a lot of people hopping over to the rope lift with ease.

It depends how far you're going which method works out best but for many slopes you're technically supposed to have your back foot free on drag lifts, particularly when as a beginner you're more likely to catch an edge and then fall over on the tow slope. It isn't the case in every resort but it's something to bear in mind anyway.

i am really struggling in rental boots, just not finding them comfortable at all, so the plan is to wait until next month when next seasons stuff comes out and get a nice fitting set of boots.

Rental boots will almost certainly have been used and abused so they're unlikely to be as comfortable as a properly fitted pair. It will depend on what it is that you find uncomfortable about the boots but perhaps it is worth considering insoles or different socks if you might not keep up the snowboarding over the longer term - the only reason I suggest that is because it is a fair amount of money to spend on something if you're not going to use it regularly plus if it's insoles then it's much easier to take with you and swap round for rental boots with no issues about oversize bags etc

I'd also say that while I'm not generally a fan of dry slopes if you can get your technique right on Dendex (or whatever they're using now) then the chances are it'll be much easier on snow and more forgiving. It's also somewhat useful in terms of getting your balance - by all means if you've got a better option then take it but dry ski slopes aren't the worst thing in the world either.

 

[rjk]

i think the boots are going to happen. we both really enjoyed it and even if the mrs loses interest, i can see it being something i would like to keep up.

the boots i used on my lessons and first few rec sessions were just quite unforgiving on the ankle area and rubbed as they didnt fit my feet very well. i was wearing thick socks on one of the occasions to try and reduce that but it was just as bad.

i think getting the odd bit here and there is probably the best way to go about it rather than smashing £700+ on gear in one go.

 

[mrthingyx]

Personally, I'd invest in some decent boots now. Even if you only take one trip a year, they will be useful.

They only cost as much as a 'decent' pair of trainers, anyway.

Boards and bindings I would leave for a couple of seasons, as you will develop your own style and understand a bit more about the various characteristics of boards, as well as what sort of bindings work for you.

 

[Nexus]

People shouldn't knock dry slopes, the old saying has always been that "if you can ride dry slope, you can ride anything", it will set you up nicely for when you get on snow.

Essentially though it comes down to your budget. You could get a one-on-one lesson on a dryslope with a good instructor for what you would be paying for a large group lesson at a snow dome. So if it is closer to you, that might make sense. You can always go and ride at local snow domes as well.

I'd avoid the 'learn in a day' type lessons. You will only end up very tried and sore, one from using muscles you don't usually use, but secondly from falling over and bruising yourself, which will happen. Its far better to take a course of lessons, so building up your muscles, muscle memory and technique.

You don't really need your own kit while learning. Most snowdomes will rent you clothing, but you will need your own gloves. You will certainly need your own stuff for most dryslopes though, as they will also take more abrasion than on snow. One thing you can do is pick up cheap snowgear from places like TK Maxx, which is useful before going the full hog and spending money on far more expensive pieces of clothing that you really like.

There is nothing wrong with second hand kit and there is plenty of it out there. The only second hand item to avoid are boots, as they will have conformed to somebody else's feet and overtime they loosen and in most cases start to fall to pieces. Arguably they are the one piece of gear you should get once you are trained to a basic level, as its far better than renting abroad.

There is certainly a temptation to go crazy and want to start buying stuff straight away, but this is not really a good idea. Many places will sell you beginner boards and bindings, which just about everyone will grow out of quickly anyway, so a waste of money. Its far better to get some experience with rental kit to decide what kind of riding you like doing before buying a board.

I used to be a snowboard instructor myself.

 

[antijoke]

I learnt to snowboard at Tamworth last year (over two weekends as we were concerned about fatigue doing it in one day) with my GF. Really enjoyed it, so much fun.

Haven't been this year through one thing or another. But I'm keen to change that soon now more time is available at weekends.

Our boys are also learning to ski and the end goal is a holiday where we go abroad (possibly with her brother who is a snowboarder) and enjoy a proper slope.
I really want to buy my own pair of boots though.