Getting power to the garage?

DampDog · 9 Sep 2016 at 09:35

Just a quickie am I correct in that this falls under Part 'P' now and it's a case of either paying an electrician to do it and sign it off? Thus it becomes an expensive endeavour instead of a cheap weekend DIY. I've had a spare RCD in the consumer unit for years for the purpose of adding a circuit to the garage at some point. I have cadged, 10m or so of SWA and have a 17th Edition, Amendment 3 Compliant garage consumer unit. I was also going to put the garage on it's isolator anyway.

Notifiable jobs include:

The installation of a new consumer unit or fuse box

The installation of a complete new circuit – for example a ring or lighting circuit, or a new circuit for a cooker, shower or immersion heater

alterations to existing circuits – such as adding an extra power point or lighting point – but only in ‘special locations’.

In England, special locations are the spaces around baths and showers. In Wales, special locations include also kitchens and outdoors.

Anyone paid to have power run to the garage/shed and have an idea of cost if a sparkie does it and signs it off?

Lumeycom · 9 Sep 2016 at 19:10

100% a notifiable job as you say, without seeing it its difficult to even begin to estimate a price

DampDog · 9 Sep 2016 at 19:37

Lumeycom said:
100% a notifiable job as you say, without seeing it its difficult to even begin to estimate a price

Cheers, that's the way I read it. I'll just bin it off now in that case. As DIY project I could have done it bit by bit as time and money allowed. I did a quick price up of bits for myself and it came to £150 in materials. I'd bet a sparkie would want 2-3 times that.

20 years back I rewired the kitchen and a few other bits and that was that. It's good that we have checks to stop the numpties killing themselves and sending everything up in flames but sometimes these things feel like overkill.

Never mind, seemed like a good idea.

Millwall.FC · 9 Sep 2016 at 21:50

There really isn't anyone to able to properly prosecute a home owner doing any diy.

Nedved11 · 9 Sep 2016 at 22:31

Why don't you run the cables for the spark, and they can terminate it. For a garage it's worth running 6/10mm cable just for future expansion.

Beer_MonsterUK · 9 Sep 2016 at 22:32

To be fair, Part P is a load of codswallop.

For instance, I'm in the process of ripping out my kitchen and installing new sockets ,spurs and lighting. All are alterations to existing circuits, so aren't notifiable but the circuits were installed pre-part P and who's to say they are safe even before I start the work.

I'm an industrial electrician with over 25 years experience, but haven't got part p, as I don't work on domestic property. Of course i will be installing as per regulations and fully testing the circuits.
Part P is completely unenforceable until places like screwfix & B&Q stop selling electrical supplies and it goes down the route of the gas regulations.

DampDog · 11 Sep 2016 at 13:03

Beer_MonsterUK said:
To be fair, Part P is a load of codswallop.

For instance, I'm in the process of ripping out my kitchen and installing new sockets ,spurs and lighting. All are alterations to existing circuits, so aren't notifiable but the circuits were installed pre-part P and who's to say they are safe even before I start the work.

I'm an industrial electrician with over 25 years experience, but haven't got part p, as I don't work on domestic property. Of course i will be installing as per regulations and fully testing the circuits.
Part P is completely unenforceable until places like screwfix & B&Q stop selling electrical supplies and it goes down the route of the gas regulations.

That crossed my mind, all the materials I need to do the job can be bought from the likes of Screwfix, Wickes, B&Q, etc, etc. They don't even have any information up to warn or inform the potential "DIYer" that the work they are about to undertake may be notifiable. Also there is a huge difference between work being unsafe vs uncompliant. I'd imagine 18th regs are in the pipeline so does that mean everything prior becomes uncompliant when the update lands anyway? Likewise how long does a typical domestic installation last 30-40+ years. Up until about 5 years ago I had a consumer unit that still had wire fuses. (I paid to have that replaced, because I wanted a bigger box)

I'm not a qualified electrician but have wired more cabinets. PLC's and switchgear boxes, etc. than I can remember. Though I'm not a numpty I can't call myself qualified either. While I agree with things being in place to stop numpties killing themselves and others, I really can't see where it would be less dangerous to modify and old circuit than add something new. I'd argue messing about with old bits or wire and old tatty fittings probably presents more dangers. The real numpties won't have a clue about part 'P' anyway and even if they are aware will just ignore it.

Lumeycom · 11 Sep 2016 at 20:03

Only people who enforce it are insurance companies. Gives them a fantastic way out of a payout after an electrical issue.

Good shout on running cables for the spark and just having them terminate, should save you a few bob.

a1ex2001 · 12 Sep 2016 at 10:42

I'd be inclined to just do it anyway unless your planning on moving in the next couple of years provided you know what you are doing it's hardly rocket science but that's just me it is amazing how far you can stretch the definition of changing an existing circuit!

Syla5 · 12 Sep 2016 at 11:42

I paid £650 for a full main fusebox replacement including a new armoured cable run to the garage and a separate fusebox in the garage which in turn has a socket circuit and lighting circuit run off it.

All done by a fully Part P registered electrician. Getting just the garage done would probably have been in the £200-£300 range.

Noakesy85 · 12 Sep 2016 at 12:49

When we moved into our first house the previous owner had 'bodged' power to the garage in spectacular fashion...

They had run a cable from the garage and through the window frame terminated in your standard 3 pin plug.
This 3 pin plug was then plugged into a socket in the kitchen which gave power to the lights and sockets in the garage :eek:

Amazing

v0n · 12 Sep 2016 at 14:05

Beer_MonsterUK said:
To be fair, Part P is a load of codswallop and is completely unenforceable until places like screwfix & B&Q stop selling electrical supplies and it goes down the route of the gas regulations.

DampDog said:
That crossed my mind, all the materials I need to do the job can be bought from the likes of Screwfix, Wickes, B&Q, etc, etc. They don't even have any information up to warn or inform the potential "DIYer" that the work they are about to undertake may be notifiable.

A DIYer or home owner can install all the items sold by Screwfix or Wickes, including consumer units without being member of any competent person's scheme or self certification body, they will just have to inform/notify the Building Control Department of their respective local authority before the work commences and get the inspector to come out, set the rules and requirements, then sign off the work afterwards.

Additionally, there is nothing stopping you, as a DIYer or home owner from creating rather convoluted temporary power supply consisting of consumer unit fitted with RCDs/RCBOs and a one meter short ring of sockets mounted to a 1x1m sheet of plywood and supplied by a standard bs1363 13A plug plugged into an existing socket somewhere in the house just because you had some sort of weekend project in the garage and you were afraid your 300W jigsaw may trip the main fuse and you didn't want power to your gaming computer or console to be interrupted and game progress/data being lost. Yes, a £10 RCD equipped garden plug would suffice, but you felt like doing it with higher rated components, and it's your money and your decision. True story.

bscott · 12 Sep 2016 at 14:21

When I moved in to my current house there was power to a large shed (Nissan Hut) about 35 meters from the house fed from a lean to conservatory. Some grey twin and earth was plugged in to a 3 pin socket in the conservatory and made it's way across a drive and was then threaded through trees and bushes down to the shed where it terminated at a 3 pin socket.

At some point the power went off in the shed and I found the twin and earth was joined to some twin cable (no earth) after about 5 meters and there were taped up joins every few meters until the final bit of twin and earth.

A death trap.

DampDog · 12 Sep 2016 at 15:08

Syla5 said:
I paid £650 for a full main fusebox replacement including a new armoured cable run to the garage and a separate fusebox in the garage which in turn has a socket circuit and lighting circuit run off it.

All done by a fully Part P registered electrician. Getting just the garage done would probably have been in the £200-£300 range.

Thanks, I would have guessed at £200-300 for getting something simple into the garage. I just wanted to save a few quid by doing it myself if possible. Looks like it will be less hassle and simpler just to save up and get it done by a sparky in the long run. I only started thinking about it as I was gifted some SWA.

Cheers

Syla5 · 12 Sep 2016 at 15:16

DampDog said:
Thanks, I would have guessed at £200-300 for getting something simple into the garage. I just wanted to save a few quid by doing it myself if possible. Looks like it will be less hassle and simpler just to save up and get it done by a sparky in the long run. I only started thinking about it as I was gifted some SWA.

Cheers

I dug the trench myself for mine so saved on that element of the labour, also the route from fusebox to garage was not straight forward. Through a brick wall, in to a cavity, up between wooden fixings in the cavity and then through a loft, out through a facia board and down to the trench, and in underneath and through the concrete base of the garage. I think its fair to say I got my monies worth

UTmaniac · 12 Sep 2016 at 17:05

How about those Blagdon all-in-one kits, that comes with armoured cable, up to ~20 metres?

Guess it partially comes down to how much electricity you plan to power in the shed. Something basic like the above would limit you to no more than ~3120W maximum, as it runs from a 3-pin socket in the main home.