Gibraltar

[Alex53]

I'm interested in the specifics of the pressure the Spanish are putting on the Gibraltarians - can someone eleborate?

How big a problem is it if the fisherman fish in Gibralters waters? is there anything else they are doing? afterall incursions are one thing but if they choose to close their borders, well, unfortunately, that is their prerogative.

Border queues. I am pretty sure all EU member states have some kind of obligation to provide reasonable transit to EU citizens. The Spanish Government systematically ease traffic or create queues depending on the political climate. People are often left waiting in vehicles for hours on end. Agreements have been reached in the past to have 2 lanes of traffic crossing over, but they always end up funnelling that into 1 lane, and stopping that lane to search vehicles on it, when it would be very easy to pull a car aside to search it instead of stopping the whole queue.

Regarding the fishing issue, the problem is that the fishermen use methods that are against the law and destroy our environment. These methods are not even allowed in Spains own waters. The Spanish authorities have encouraged the fishermen to carry on fishing in our waters and provided police escort for them, claiming that they are their waters. The Royal Navy has warned them they were in British Territorial waters and told them to leave on some occasions, but they persist. One of their ships was served a summons to appear in our courts. The Spanish authorities quickly stated that it was invalid.

The latest twist seems to be that their fisheries minister actually has an interest in the bunkering business. The port of Algeciras (Spain) competes with Gibraltar for this business. You do the math.

There is a long history of harassment by Spain of anything Gibraltar related. For example, our Football Association, formed in 1895, has applied to join FIFA, but Spain lobbies hard to prevent us becoming members.

The list could go on.

 

[eatcustard]

Until such time Gibraltar is part of the UK, and we are happy for you to be so.

 

[Superficial]

• Border queues (take your pick between 30 minutes & 4 hours, jams up traffic locally)
• Raking of British Territorial waters.
• Non-recognition of said waters
• Flagrant disregard of warnings made by RN and local Police
• Constant campaign in Media (especially on the financial front, on which they have little to nothing to go on)
• Constant objections to Gibraltarians entering sporting events, including FIFA membership to name one)
• Accusations of being a drug entry point into Europe (lol, 3 square miles of coastline, 1 exit border into spain, versus 1000's of miles of coastline across the border...)
• Non-recognition of our Government. (Which does everything except defense nowadays)
• Non acceptance of countless referendums repeating our wishes (99.6% last time iirc) to remain british.

Could go on for ages...im not even hitting the emotional side of things here.

First off let me say that I express nothing but solidarity with the Gibraltarians and the Falklanders. If the worst happens the Army and Royal Navy must act.

I'm simply trying to ascertain how much of this "pressure" is practical / physical and how much could, realistically, just be ignored with little ill effect.

1) I will say that the Border Queue issue seems the worst.
2 and 3 come under the same banner to my mind - but constitute a real and physical issue.

The rest could probably be ignored.

I think, now that Afghanistan is coming to a close, we need some very expansive Royal marine checkpoints in place and some arrests. There are those that would complain that we are exacerbating things but the Gibraltarians are our people and they are obviously being intimidated.

 

[Alex53]

First off let me say that I express nothing but solidarity with the Gibraltarians and the Falklanders. If the worst happens the Army and Royal Navy must act.

I'm simply trying to ascertain how much of this "pressure" is practical / physical and how much could, realistically, just be ignored with little ill effect.

1) I will say that the Border Queue issue seems the worst.
2 and 3 come under the same banner to my mind - but constitute a real and physical issue.

The rest could probably be ignored.

I think, now that Afghanistan is coming to a close, we need some very expansive Royal marine checkpoints in place and some arrests. There are those that would complain that we are exacerbating things but the Gibraltarians are our people and they are obviously being intimidated.

You are obviously on our side, so don't take my reply as a hurt one. But you can't minimise what it does to the psyche of a town to constantly feel that your neighbouring, much larger, nation's Government is always ready to make things harder for you.

The border was physically closed from 1969 to 1985. Oxygen for hospitals denied access. Families split. The generation that grew in that climate are often fervently anti everything Spanish. That in itself is a scar you don't want to have.

The entire population of Spain is not to blame, but many in Gibraltar will act as if they are. A lot of the Spanish media bombard their people with a ridiculous amount of anti-Gibraltar articles, that in this day and age we get to read too and makes our blood boil. There comes a point in a confrontation where both sides are wrong and reconciliation is difficult. I'd rather that in my town, when someone flies a Spanish flag he isnt likely to be at least verbally abused because it is seen as offensive. Its not normal.

EDIT: Here is what happened at the frontier when Spain won the European Cup: http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25322

EDIT: And since rear number plates on Gib cars are yellow, some people decide to spray paint 2 red lines on them to make a Spanish flag: http://www.chronicle.gi/headlines_details.php?id=25239