Going "Off Grid"

FoxEye · 31 Dec 2019 at 23:07

LeeUK said:
Most of these off grid people are rich hippies who can stop it all in an instant if it gets too much for them e.g hook the leccy/gas/water back up.

I can't help but wonder if going off grid is very environmentally sound, tbh, in a developed country like ours.

If we all went off grid I'm sure it would be fairly awful in terms of environmental consequences.

Psycho Sonny · 1 Jan 2020 at 01:18

Orionaut said:
If you are a "low user" the standing/daily charges that utility accounts all seem to apply these days are particularly painful

And yes, I am asking because I am shortly to be in a position where all this is a significant possibility.

I dare say there are all sorts of regulatory/technical hoops one would need to jump through in order to sell surplus electricity. I really do not want to be bothered. Sad really since what I have in mind will almost certainly be capable of generating an excess at certain times of the year, possibly quite a significant excess (5-10Kw)

22p per day?

£1.50 a week

£150 a year for both?

The thing is though you would need to have a big enough system to cope with peak demand. Say running washing, dishwasher, kettle, TV, shower, surround sound and pc as well as all idle stuff at the same time.

I don't see how anyone bar short of a proper commercial setup could cope all year round.

What are you going to do in winter when there is no sun?

What kind of windmill would you need and what if there is no wind?

You would need to either have bare essentials only in your home. Or a huge battery system.

All of which costs money. It would be cheaper just to buy several properties, rent them out and use the rent money to pay for electricity and gas on your main home.

The idea of going off grid is quite frankly ridiculous unless you only have like 5 devices which use electricity.

Psycho Sonny · 1 Jan 2020 at 01:32

Jez said:
I don’t think that I am missing the point...the fuel fed into a generator to create electricity costs at least 50ppl. This is certainly not a free byproduct(!) and is as expensive as buying silent reliable clean power from the grid.....

as I say I am involved in a building which other than power and fibre is off grid along with the whole hamlet which it is in, no one bothers to generate their own power though as you can’t really do it in a worthwhile fashion. If you have a power connection available, use it..imo.

That fuel is only going to get more expensive as demand goes down over time and it is taxed into extinction.

They want everyone to be using clean renewable energy not oil.

Also how is he planning on running his electric car in 10 years time?

Roar87 · 1 Jan 2020 at 01:40

Why would you want to go "off grid" though?

Jez · 1 Jan 2020 at 08:38

Psycho Sonny said:
That fuel is only going to get more expensive as demand goes down over time and it is taxed into extinction.

They want everyone to be using clean renewable energy not oil.

Also how is he planning on running his electric car in 10 years time?

I’m not sure that I see kerosene being taxed any more than the 5% that it currently is, too many people including groups such as vulnerable older people and families with young children rely on it for heating...it’s much the same as electricity tax. I think what will happen is perhaps the renewable heat incentives will slowly attract more and more people into air source and ground source instead. Not many new homes seem to be built with oil heating these days, developers seem to stick to the favoured ground or air source systems. Oil will slowly but surely die out naturally imo.

absolutely re the power generation with regards to peaks and troughs, I’ve never seen a situation where anyone bothers as it’s just not financially viable.

Threepwood · 1 Jan 2020 at 09:12

Jez said:
Not many new homes seem to be built with oil heating these days

Its been banned, along with gas, for new builds.

Jez · 1 Jan 2020 at 09:19

Threepwood said:
Its been banned, along with gas, for new builds.

Makes sense, they all seem to have air source or ground source around here.

moon man · 1 Jan 2020 at 09:21

we dont have gas here and there is lots like me on oil ,tell you what though its a hell of a lot better than the log burners people use ,thick plumes of pollutants ,dosnt effect me personally but wouldnt like to be down wind.

cheesyboy · 1 Jan 2020 at 09:59

Orionaut said:
I have one of these (This is not mine)

These old Listers can run continuously, literally, for months, even years. They generate around 4KWhr/litre of pretty much anything you want to put into them (Diesel, heating oil, Waste motor oil, Chip fat, Rendered down dead bodies of ones enemies, etc )

My father worked for Listers for 25+ years. My grandfather, following his metal fabrication business going **** up whilst he suffered through polio, also worked there for a time.

It's a shame to see the company as it is now: a shadow of its old self now. Nice to see its old engines still getting the love and respect they deserve, though.

Freddie1980 · 1 Jan 2020 at 15:11

Roar87 said:
Why would you want to go "off grid" though?

I don't understand the appeal either but whenever I get my electric bill through I think how nice it would be to generate my own electricity and sell the excess back to the greedy buggers.

inflames · 1 Jan 2020 at 15:28

I really like the idea, of going off grid and living a simple life. Sounds great to me, but there will a few things that i would miss.

hominid · 1 Jan 2020 at 15:40

inflames said:
I really like the idea, of going off grid and living a simple life. Sounds great to me, but there will a few things that i would miss.

I would love to be able to but for me it's not possible unfortunately. I did start looking at it but I would need something like 14KW solar array to take care of most things(inc electric car), including a Powerwall, but still needed to take care of heating. That, at the time, was something like £30k of panels and battery which was steep, now probably be around £25k and I'd still need an electric car..

moon man · 1 Jan 2020 at 16:09

when i was looking into diy powebanks out of 18650s youtube suggested this
thing is he had to convert to 3 phase but i found it interesting i know its not really about off grid

FoxEye · 1 Jan 2020 at 16:12

To be honest, most people who talk about going "off-grid" in this country would still be popping to Sainsburys every couple days to stock up on Marmite

Properly off-grid is living on the side of mountain, growing mushrooms in your poo, and sucking on a goats udders.

That's off grid.

Cromulent · 1 Jan 2020 at 16:36

I'd love to do something like this. I have mental health issues that make being around other people a problem, and this would be the perfect solution for me. I'm going to start watching some of those YouTube videos and see what I can learn about it all.

Smokey Deza · 1 Jan 2020 at 16:41

FoxEye said:
To be honest, most people who talk about going "off-grid" in this country would still be popping to Sainsburys every couple days to stock up on Marmite

Properly off-grid is living on the side of mountain, growing mushrooms in your poo, and sucking on a goats udders.

That's off grid.

Yeah, it's not really hardcore off the grid when you have UFH and a Youtube channel.

Unlike this guy

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-49874969

=XDC=FluphyBunny · 2 Jan 2020 at 08:23

Going by some posts “off-grid” doesn’t seem mean what I thought it meant.

dirtychinchilla · 2 Jan 2020 at 10:07

Threepwood said:
Its been banned, along with gas, for new builds.

Jez said:
Makes sense, they all seem to have air source or ground source around here.

Does it really make sense to band gas for new builds? OK if you have a heat pump, that might work out fine for you, although they are expensive to run in the first place. If you don't have a heat pump, you'll be paying for electric heating which is maybe 12p/kWh. Gas it maybe 4p/kWh and with boiler efficiencies at 90%+, that gas system is going to be a hell of a lot cheaper for the use than the electric heating. Using a gas power station instead of a gas boiler in your home isn't necessarily more efficient, particularly when you consider distribution losses through that system.

As you might realise, it really grinds my gears that the government believes electric heating to be better. It's just not.

Jez · 2 Jan 2020 at 10:13

To be honest ive never lived in a gas area...hard to comment on cost although your maths looks right. Oil burners are fairly smelly, dirty, the exhaust stinks and is not regulated, i am all for them never being installed now in favour of AS/GSHP. ASHP and GSHP have the efficiency (in terms of cost) roughly equivalent to a local gas boiler, then you (the government) have the flexibility to control and regulate the source electricity supply.

Even direct electric i dont really think i could agree with you. Even if that power were to come straight from a gas power plant, with any losses incurred through transmission, remember that that gas power plant will be regulated to the hilt and will continue to be regulated to a tighter and tighter degree with carbon capture and heavy monitoring and constant maintenance. Over time the source of the power will gradually change too, which isnt an option if we keep installing local gas boilers.

cheesyboy · 2 Jan 2020 at 10:17

dirtychinchilla said:
As you might realise, it really grinds my gears that the government believes electric heating to be better. It's just not.

It's a CO2 thing. Though Air-source is going to be competitive on price with oil (oil's ok, day to day, but I just had to replace my oil tank (approx 15 yr lifespan on the last one) at a cost of about £2k), and not far behind gas.