Going on Strike

[Dolph]

Making the unions liable for the cost to HP/EDS will put an end to that

Under the suggestion I have made, only if an independant third party (such as the courts, or ACAS) considers the unions demands unreasonable after a full investigation of the issues (paid for by both sides). I've happily said I would put the same onus on the company if the company is found to be unreasonable.

I don't advocate removal of the right to strike, but removal of the right to strike over refusal to accept unreasonable demands.

 

[Glaucus]

As said the media never says why they are on Strike. they totally miss represented what we were striking for last year.

And in many cases nothing the company can do. You just can't sack your entire workforce. It would take months or years to trainee people up. Depending on the job.

Don't ask me how I stand on unions, in some ways they are good but in many ways they are plain awful. No one in the current climate should or would strike just for pay rises.

 

[jamief]

As for the cost of stamps, I reckon it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge 50p, 60p or even upto a £1 for a first class stamp when you think about either what a pound buys you nowadays and the value for money you get with a first class stamp.

With a bit of luck, 95% of "post" will be electronic in the not too distant future - it benefits everyone, vastly reduces the environmental impact and benefits the consumer and the supplier.

We can then usual specialised parcel services for parcels, and maybe the RM strikers will realise how good they actually had it when they are lining up at the JobCentre.

 

[Dolph]

Theres no point whatsoever in members of the public discussing the merits of pro or anti monopoly where RM are concerned because it never has nor never will affect you. If anything the regulator is doing the man in the street a favour because if RM were allowed to charge what it actually cost (and an extra penny for profit) for letters and packets then you'd see a significant increase in the price of stamps, although not to the point where you'd think it was unreasonable. The end of the monopoly has always been about buisness mail, or Downstream access which has already been mentioned, thats the killer.

That's an argument for removal of regulation if ever there was one... Regulation is clearly not helping if it's forcing the company to run services at a loss.

As for the cost of stamps, I reckon it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge 50p, 60p or even upto a £1 for a first class stamp when you think about either what a pound buys you nowadays and the value for money you get with a first class stamp.

I'd certainly consider it reasonable to cover all the costs associated with delivering the letter, provided the company was operating efficiently in the first place (which would be actively encouraged by clear costings incidentally).

 

[Jeff Lynne]

bonuses for what exactly? Doing your job that you're paid to do in the first place?

No. I'll give you the courtesy of a reply but I doubt you'll be interested.

Bonuses for making savings.

I get paid for doing my job but this is seperate.

They have been tasked with taking hundreds of hours (weekly) out of each office, pro rata depending on the hours in the office in the first place.

What this has done is that I normally go to 475 houses on my walk, it takes three hours, but they've lapsed one delivery in five (approx 500 houses) and given an extra 100 calls to each of .......

Sorry, I can't be bothered to go into details.

 

[Jeff Lynne]

I had generalised the reasons for striking as these are usually the common reasons. I didnt say that had anything to do with the current strike action, I had been talking about past strikes. I don't really care for the reasons why they are striking, if they aren't happy in their job they can leave there are plenty of people who want jobs.

Of course if you said a mature statement instead of a "LOLZ U IS NAIVE" in big bold capital letters, I would have taken the statement seriously but you didn't bother.

NAIVE, NAIVE, NAIVE!!!!!!!

You really are incredibly naive when you make statements like that.

Don't you understand that workers like to protect their pay, protect their pensions, protect their rights.

If someone jumped in your car and said "I'm having this" would you tell them ok and go get another car? Don't you ever stand up and fight when you think something is wrong?

 

[zytok]

wasn't really directed at you personally, just found the concept always a bit odd, you get paid to do a job, if you do it to the best of your ability, you get paid, if you don't you get fired. Works at all levels including management. Just think that complaining about not getting a bonus is a bit rich coming from anyone, not just you.

 

[RDM]

Theres no point whatsoever in members of the public discussing the merits of pro or anti monopoly where RM are concerned because it never has nor never will affect you.

But it does affect me. It affects what I pay for post, the options I have for post and the service I receive for post.

If anything the regulator is doing the man in the street a favour because if RM were allowed to charge what it actually cost (and an extra penny for profit) for letters and packets then you'd see a significant increase in the price of stamps, although not to the point where you'd think it was unreasonable.

How is this doing the man in the street a favour? Because it is hiding the cost behind taxation? Or passing the cost on to businesses and so they then pass the costs on to their customers? I have no problems with post actually costing how much it should it would make next to no difference to my costs and would hopefully spur more companies to use electronic mail instead.

 

[Jeff Lynne]

See, I'd consider this a good thing provided it is done correctly, there are bound to be scope for cutting costs now that the monopoly has been broken and the company is expected to stand competitively. As a taxpayer, I don't want to be subsidising royal mail, I want it (even if government owned) to be an effective, self-sufficient company.



The fact that no-one wants to buy royal mail now says far more about the prevailing economy than it does about RM (although there is still a huge need to reform the pensions to solve that major shortfall).

Royal mail is a company in need of reform, that much is undeniable if the company wishes to remain relevant and build a customer base of its own (rather than having a customer base because the customer had no choice). That will mean change, that is unavoidable, but too many people at all levels are too concerned with protecting their own little empires rather than protecting the company as a whole.

You mention pensions and I assume you're referring to the black hole than needs to be filled. Now this is a point which makes the workers blood boil because it was them, or their predecessors who decided not to pay into the fund for, what was it? Ten years, fifteen? Something like that. Now were the ones who have to do more and more for no extra to make up for their mistake. You should probably understand why I'd feel ever so slightly miffed and stubborn when this point raises it's ugly head.

 

[growse]

You really are incredibly naive when you make statements like that.

Don't you understand that workers like to protect their pay, protect their pensions, protect their rights.

If someone jumped in your car and said "I'm having this" would you tell them ok and go get another car? Don't you ever stand up and fight when you think something is wrong?

Unlike a car, you don't 'buy' your job.

If I found a new job tomorrow, I can take my pension, my pay and my 'rights' (which are guaranteed in law) with me. I genuinely don't see what the issue is?

 

[Captain_Slick]

Don't you understand that workers like to protect their pay, protect their pensions, protect their rights.

If that's all you're striking for, why does everyone think you're striking for bonuses, pay increases, etc?

Don't call us naive without telling us why your fellow RM employees really are striking...

 

[Jeff Lynne]

Striking shouldn't be an option. If you are so unhappy with your working conditions that you feel that striking is the only option, you should seek alternative employment. After all, thats what 95% of the population have to do. If I told my boss I wasn't happy with not getting a payrise this year and was going to picket the front gate, I'd be out on my ******* ear.

Also "in civvies" - you are a "civvie". I don't think people respect RM in the slightest anymore, not when you see the amount of mail that get stolen and some of the utter scrotes that deliver post.

1 you clearly didn't read what you've quoted going by your response and 2, yes they do respect the uniform. I speak from experience.

 

[zytok]

But surely you are being equally naive in that you don't seem to realise that the rest of the world outside your cushy environment doesn't work that way. You are fortunate enough to be working in a unique environment where you think you have a right to a payrise, a right to a good pension and a right to not be made redundant. Anywhere else you get what you're given, like it or lump it.

 

[Dolph]

NAIVE, NAIVE, NAIVE!!!!!!!

You really are incredibly naive when you make statements like that.

Not really, outside of most nationalised/formally nationalised/civil service roles, that's exactly what people do, or they negotiate in a mature fashion taking into account all sides.

Don't you understand that workers like to protect their pay, protect their pensions, protect their rights.

If someone jumped in your car and said "I'm having this" would you tell them ok and go get another car? Don't you ever stand up and fight when you think something is wrong?

That's an apples to oranges comparison, because in most cases we aren't talking about past payments or properties (remember the RM pension fund is run in such a way that would have got it shut down if it didn't belong to the government, namely it uses current contributions/current business profits to pay past investors, rather than investment proceeds).

The reality is that royal mail was run badly in the past because it had a monopoly, and has lots of bad practices in place that need resolving, which means change for everyone (employees and customers). Striking doesn't in any way alter this need for change, a much better approach would be to try and accept the need for change and lead it in the way you want to go, but the CWU is not interested in that, they want the status quo or nothing. Unfortunately, as history shows, nothing is the likely result of such a stance.

 

[MoRT489]

Speaking of royal mail, i'm expecting a hard drive today from OCUK via royal mail 1st class (thought they used DPD for everything but checked the confirmation and it's not). Anyway will the postie just pop this thru the letter box (assuming they got out of bed in my area)?! Harddrive dropping 3ft might not work out too well!!

 

[jamief]

But surely you are being equally naive in that you don't seem to realise that the rest of the world outside your cushy environment doesn't work that way. You are fortunate enough to be working in a unique environment where you think you have a right to a payrise, a right to a good pension and a right to not be made redundant. Anywhere else you get what you're given, like it or lump it.

+1

People don't realise how lucky they are. Final Salary based pensions, striking to get payrises, striking to change working conditions.

In the real world, you don't demand ANYTHING from your Employer. You get a payrise if you deserve one, and financial measures allow one, you get a pension which YOU contribute a HUGE amount of money to, and if you aren't happy with how things are you look for ANOTHER job. Far cry from wandering around poking letters through doors and striking when you want more money, in the middle of a recession.

 

[Sash]

NAIVE, NAIVE, NAIVE!!!!!!!

You really are incredibly naive when you make statements like that.

Don't you understand that workers like to protect their pay, protect their pensions, protect their rights.

If someone jumped in your car and said "I'm having this" would you tell them ok and go get another car? Don't you ever stand up and fight when you think something is wrong?

Yes, because an insult is always a good way to start and continue a debate isn't it? I'm not even going to bother replying again if you are just going to play the Naive card.

I may be naive but I can debate without having to insult or be derogatory to the other party.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Are management having their wages and bonuses frozen too?

What percentage of total salary expenditure consists of higher management?

 

[Dolph]

You mention pensions and I assume you're referring to the black hole than needs to be filled. Now this is a point which makes the workers blood boil because it was them, or their predecessors who decided not to pay into the fund for, what was it? Ten years, fifteen? Something like that. Now were the ones who have to do more and more for no extra to make up for their mistake. You should probably understand why I'd feel ever so slightly miffed and stubborn when this point raises it's ugly head.

You perhaps don't understand how the royal mail pension fund works. It's best described as a ponzi scheme. The money you have already given was not invested for your benefit, it was given to previous investors (along with contribution from business profits).

This would never have been allowed to happen in a private business, and yet it has been commonplace in nationalised and formally nationalised businesses to operate such a model.

The shortfall was partially caused by the refusal to top up the fund, but primarily it was caused by the structure which required the top up in the first place.

 

[Glaucus]

Not really, outside of most nationalised/formally nationalised/civil service roles, that's exactly what people do, or they negotiate in a mature fashion taking into account all sides.

Which is how it should work. However this is totally useless when there is no other company doing the job.

if you want to be a postie then there is only one company, same with many other public jobs. The total monopoly means you can't just seek a new job in the same sector. Which is why it's silly trying to compare private sector with some of the public sectors.