Got a nightclub photography gig tomorrow... tips and recommendations?

Richdog

Richdog

Richdog

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Joined
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Hi guys,

I will be doing the photography tomorrow for a nightclub who are having a (late) Paddys Day celebration. It will be a dim nightclub with the usual mix oflow ambient light on the sid eof the dancefloor, and spotlights and probably colours on the dancefloor.

My available kit is:

  • Nikon D750
  • Nikon 24-120 f/4 (great IQ but slower constant aperture)
  • Nikon 35-70 f/2.8 (push-pull, soft at 70mm w. 2.8, great at 60mm and below w. 2.8)
  • Nikon 50mm f/1.8 (fast and amazingly sharp, but too narrow for clubs I think)
  • Yongnuo 565 EX with diffuser

As you can see, I do not have a dearth of good fast glass available as I rarely shoot in low light indoors. While I would love to be able to shoot with natural light only, I have the feeling that my 24-120mm f/4 is going to be the only lens that covers the focal range needed for groups and nice portraits, but of course it is a stop slower than 2.8, and even with VR this will be a problem for anything that is moving unless I ramp up the ISO very highly (also an option as the D750 is great in that respect). Thus, I am likely going to need a cleverly diffused and bounced flash in the form of my Yong to ensure some decent and even lighting.

So chaps what do you think... can I get away with the 24-120 and flash combo? Any tips for me, other than running out to buy a new lens tomorrow? :)
 
Mr Badger said:
Do a search for "second curtain flash" and experiment with those settings on a dry run to see what exposure works for you.

And I would still take the prime for some shallow DOF portraits.
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Ok will have a play today, thanks!

Steeps said:
Wide lenses will be better, 50mm is probably going to be too much unless you just want head and shoulders. Don't worry too much about fast glass as you'll be shooting groups of people who might not be level with your focal plane. Set your exposure for the room/atmosphere so you get some good lighting around the subjects (even if it means running a 1/4 shutter speed), then direct flash (don't bounce it or diffuse as it will affect the nightclub lighting) at them to freeze them where they are. Second curtain on the flash would be better but not essential. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO if needed. If you turn up early and the club is fairly empty it will give you a chance to test the lighting before it gets too busy.
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Yeah I am definitely getting there at least half an hour early to setup and test the lighting. Regarding the flash are you sure direct will work best? I presume you mean on full manual set to low, or do you mean still using TTL?

D.P. said:
You will need to use a flash so I don't think the 50mm really has an advantage,nor the 35-70mm really. The other thign is as Steeps says, you are shooting groups of people so you don't want a shallow DoF, you need something sufficient to make sure people are in focus. A smaller aperture will also help take care of focus issues, e.g. people moving

I would shoot the 24-120, typically stopped down to f/5.6. Plenty of flexibility, portraits to groups and whole club all in one lens without stress. Even at f/5.6 the DoF will be shallow enough such that the background wont be distracting. Why people mostly want shallow DoF is to separate subject form background, that can be done better by exploitation perspective and ensuring the subject is fully sharp. A wide angle lens at f/2.0 will create a much busier background than a 100mm lens at f/4.0, the former will lead to soft edges around the subject, the latter will ensure the subject is very crisp and thus helping to give a 3D effect.

In a club shooting a 50mm at f/1.8 and ISO 6400 will still not give you any good photos. Since people are dancing and moving, or swaying and drunk, you will want much more than 1/50th to ensure sharp subjects, but the flash will achieve this for you even at f/5.6 (although the flash exposure might be 1/60th, the flahs itself is like 1/1000th so freezes motion).

As Mr Badger say, club photography often does well with second curtain flash. Basically you can have the flash fire at the start or end of the exposure, normally it does it at the start but if you do it at the end (called rear curtain on Nikon), then the foreground subject will look super imposed over a blurred background.
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Some good info and tips there, thanks DP! Agree with the aperture and DOF comments, I think for my first gig it's just important to get some decent sharp pictures than faff around going for anything fancy.

Will definitely have a play with the second curtain on my Yong today!

Thanks you guys much appreciated.

Will also remember batteries... lots of batteries...
 
Well, event over... it went "ok", and by that I meant I took some nice photos but it could certainly have been better. One thing I noted was that the plastic diffuser I used (Stofen) still caused shiny face syndrome (SFS) unless really angled away from the subject. I will look at buying another diffuser that can provide a less focussed, softer light... maybe the collapsible lightsphere or Graslon Prodigy.

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I also had a few issues with focus, namely when people are standing next to each other but not level, and one or more people are slightly out of focus. WHat is the best way of avoiding that other than lining people up manually?

Thanks again for the info, and I learned some important lessons!
 
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D.P. said:
The best solution is to stop down, f/8 or more.
This is a very common mistake for events.

The other option is to go shallow and purposely have the other people out of focus by shifting your alignment to be at say 45*.

It is something i run into a lot at events, I gor.from shooting a single person portrat at f/4.0 to shooting a group of 2-3 and although I might stop down to f/6.3 that is often not enough Sonim conciously stopping down further.

You can try to get a bettee alignment with the people, but if they are not at the same level then there is not much you can do. Look at DoF charts to get a feel.
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I was at f7/f8 most of the time and at ISO 100 with my Yongnuo.

I think I may have been in the wrong (or at least sub-optimal) focus mode... I was in AF-C d51. If it was a single person and I had more time I would simply set the point manually on the eye... but for more than one person and under time pressure that wasn't so good.
 
So tomorrow I have another gig in another club, an Aprils fool event with some live entertainer doing impressions of famous female singers or something.

I was thinking to try and go it without flash using a 50mm 1.8 and an ISO of 1600-3200 to get the shutter speed to acceptable levels.

Thoughts?
 
D.P. said:
You wont have enough light, even at ISO 6400 and f/1.8
This is esepcially true for anyone dancing, then you will need far higher shutter speeds or a flash

Use AF-S focus mode.
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AF-S mode on a moving subject?

Razor-BladE said:
As said, you definitely won't have enough light without a flash. And 50mm will be much too narrow.

Regarding people not being level with each other, although you'll never get a group of people exactly in line with each other you can minimize the problem.
I always try and get central and perpendicular to the majority of the group. So if they turned and faced you but they're all at a diagonal to you, for example, person on right is closest, person on left is furthest away, I would shift myself to the left and in a bit, so that the middle person will have the focus and persons left and right are equal distance away from focus point.
If that makes sense.
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Yeah similar to what I was thinking for next time, thanks!
 
D.P. said:
"I don't think AF-S focus is a good idea !!!! lol
Single shot focus,"

AF-S is single shot focus, the S stands for single!:D
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AF-C = continuous autofocus

AF-S = single autofocus

Clarification here http://www.slrphotographyguide.com/camera/nikon-digital-slr/focus-modes.shtml

AF-C (AF continuous, sometimes called continuous servo) is good use when photographing moving objects. When your camera is set to AF-C and you focus on a moving subject, for example a dog running towards you, the focus will stay on the animal so long as your shutter button is held half way down. In other words, the camera will keep re-focusing as the animal moves. That is, so long as you keep your shutter button held half way down.

AF-S (AF single, sometimes called single area AF) mode, is good for photographing subjects that don't move, such as flowers or portraits etc. It locks the focus on the non moving object that you want to photograph. You can then recompose the shot and take the photograph.
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So just a terminology mixup. :)
 
Ok, 24-120 with external flash it is once more then.

However I really need to get a replacement lens, because as I said before I HATE the bokeh on this lens, it's nervous, scrappy and just completely lacking in aesthetic quality.

Will aim for a Nikon 24-70 methinks.
 
D.P. said:
Do yiu have any examples of bad bokeh from th s 24-120mm? I've never heard of anyone complain TBH, it isn't quite as smooth as the 24-70 but Plenty of professional wedding togs think it is pleasant enough. Not saying it is beautiful but my understanding is the bokeh isn't offensive from that lens. I've seen plenty of more nervous bokeh from fast primes.

Do you have the VR switched on, because that is known to make bokeh more nervous looking. It won't be needed with the flash.
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Referenced quite a lot on the web https://www.google.ch/search?q=24-1...7.3845j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8

I know it is of course subjective to "some" extent, but it is pretty damn nasty to my eye vs any other lens I have. I will try to remember to post some samples tomorrow from my own collection as I certainly have some prime examples.

I didn't know about the VR affecting it, so will disable that tonight and see if it improves things, thanks for the tip!
 
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Combat squirrel said:
Yeah wouldn't worry about the bokeh - while its good you have attention to detail - drunk hungover folks will be viewing the photos - they really don't see or even understand what a good photo is (no disrespect meant to anyone)

So just get clear well framed photos and you will be fine :)
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I'm not worrying about the bokeh for tonight as the scrappiness is mostly visible in daylight scenarios, but the fact is that it annoys me every time I see it, and I want to have pride and satisfaction in all of my photos, not notice niggling annoyances... even if I am the only one who is offended by it. :p
 
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Well chaps, last night I flew in the face of advice and used only a nifty fifty... 50mm. And no flash. http://www.dpreview.com/products/nikon/lenses/nikon_50_1p8

I got some amazing shots and I cannot believe how much better the lighting looks without flash killing everything!

The downside is I have 750 shots to trawl through... the upside is I now have a contact who is going into event management and is interested in using me as a paid photographer!
 
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D.P. said:
As combat squirrel says, you were likely using the flash wrong.

To give you an idea I was shooting recent events at ISO 6400, f/4.0 and a bounced flash.

You want to set the aperture and ISO to expose as much of the background as you want and drop the flash power so the foreground and background are balanced. And do whatever you can to bounce the flash. If you shot at base ISO then of course the background will be a black hole.
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At the last place I was using the flash on TTL, mostly bouncing off walls or ceiling. However I didn't think about the ISO, so will try that next time and see the results.

Flash vs no flash is always going to look different, hence why some people have such strong preferences either way. I'm happy to use either, but find the results without flash much more aesthetically pleasing for conveying club atmosphere, even if flash is better for close-ups of people.
 
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No worries guys, will bear all this in mind for next time, and you are right DP, I wouldn't have thought to raise the ISO when using flash, but now that I mull it over it does make perfect sense.

thanks again for all the helpful tips and advice!

Here are a couple from last night:

10944849_10152603174456330_1323386128192734302_o.jpg

11060868_10152603173736330_775425074652062820_o.jpg
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Maybe not tack sharp, but certainly acceptable results I think considering they will be on a website and quite small. I don't think the singer would have appreciated a flash going off so close to her anyhow.

Really may give a Tamron 24-70 another shot and get a good copy, as I really want VC as it does make a huge difference with slower shutter speeds when the subject isn't moving much (or at all).
 
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Combat squirrel said:
Good start Rich, Obviously you mentioned they are not tack sharp - this is the issue with prime lenses - you have to have a ton of practice using them as the DOF is so so shallow and the slightest movement makes it blur.

Also a reason to use flash with 2nd curtain sync is you can even be wobblier than an arthritic donkey and as soon as the flash fires you 'burn' in the 'sharp' image to the image sensor - this is how people achieve moving back grounds with sharp in focus portrait subject - depending on how much you move you will also get an 'aura' effect around the subject.
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Yeah Squirrel you are spot on there, I do need to practise and get the hang of second curtain for people snapping in clubs... clearly I have been doing it sub-par with regards to the ISO etc and the backgrounds are noobie dark as you guys pointed out. However I do stand by not using flash close to performers, as I know they do find it incredibly irritating.

God, I love photography... so satifying identifying and correcting mistakes and learning new things.

PS: It is also insane how many women I am meeting as a result of doing the photography... it's an instant opener. :eek: :D
 
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Combat squirrel said:
Awesome dude ! Yeah you make a good point about performance photography, slightly different than club as you cannot use flash - you pretty much did all you can do, fast lenses- just bump up the ISO as you know, sorted.

Yeah its ace -- NEVER stop learning - happy to help where can, but also learning myself so its not all gospel :D

It's one of those things where fun to do as a hobby but the temptation to make a living from it is huge (I do now), but because its so SO popular there are a BILLION of us out there - which in turn pushes everyone even more because you then have to keep out doing each other to stay in the public radar :D

Net result is one day in the future, everyone will be an amazing photographer :D
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The good thing is that I live outside of the UK where there are a lot of expat events and groups going on, and the market isn't saturated with photographers. If I could one day turn it from amateur to professional then I would not be unhappy. :)
 
Well, I did another gig last night and I really think I need to get away from TTL. I was at 200 shutter speed, f6.2 and ISO 1600/3200 and the flash was still blowing out the background lighting detail even when pointed straight up.

I think I need to go to manual flash and set it to the absolute minimum, or as close to as necessary, in order to get the photos looking like I'm aiming for (artificial light for the faces, yet retaining background ambience).
 
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