GPU change?

[Rob_J]

Hi folks, not been here in a very very long time so please bear with me.

My system (Specs in sig) is very old by todays standards but it still does what I need it to do... almost . I built it around 7 years ago and the only upgrade from the original GPU (nVidia EVGA 790GTX) was to the EVGA 1660 Super around 6 years ago also recently to a 1TB NVME.

I'm not a gamer by any stretch of the imagination but I do enjoy the occasional hour or so on World of Warships or FS9/10. I think I'm right in assuming that my MOBO is only PCIE 3 compliant which I believe limits my choice of GPUs and I'd prefer to stick with nVidia if possible. The 1660 Super I'm currently using is now showing signs of occasional glitches where the screen will either freeze for a few seconds or just go blank and then back again.

I've tried various drivers from old to the latest for my card but the problems still happen, I've even tried different cables (HDMI, DP even VGA (I know I know)) and also tried 3 different moniters to see if that was the problem, alas no.

My question is, what would be my options for a GPU replacement as I gather a PCIE 4 GPU would be out of the question? Cost is also limited as I'm a pensioner now so please be gentle.

Many thanks, Rob

EDITED to correct build time, I built this in 2018

 

[Captain_Bosh]

PCIE is generally backwards compatible so you can run a gen 4 on a gen 3 slot.

 

[Rob_J]

Interesting as I read in another thread that "If you don't have pcie 4.0 then cross Nvidia off your list, 5060 Ti = x8 lanes only".

 

[heatonpkmassive]

Interesting as I read in another thread that "If you don't have pcie 4.0 then cross Nvidia off your list, 5060 Ti = x8 lanes only".

This is correct. Really depends on your budget, because if it's around 200 quid I'd be more inclined to search for a second hand AM4 combo and a 5000 series CPU like the 5600 and keep the 1660. I think you'd see an uplift equal or maybe even better than pairing the 9900k with a modernish graphics card.

That said, the 9900k isn't totally terrible and a graphics card upgrade would still give you better performance. As long as the games you want to play aren't heavy on video memory, you could potentially gain with a GPU upgrade.

But again, depends on budget.

 

[DrBombcrater]

Yeah, hard to advise without having some idea of the budget.

PCie 3.0 is not a problem except in a few limited circumstances. Cards with 8GB or less and an 8x PCIe link (like the 8GB RTX 5060/5060Ti) suffer really badly on PCIe 3.0 systems, but those are poor cards anyway.

If your budget is below about £350 that's the point where I generally recommend looking for a used card. An RTX 3060 12GB should be a pleasing upgrade, and used models can be had for about £220 from a well known chain of used electronics shops that I can't name because of the forum rules.

 

[Aretak]

Interesting as I read in another thread that "If you don't have pcie 4.0 then cross Nvidia off your list, 5060 Ti = x8 lanes only".

That's not a compatibility issue as such. It just means Nvidia gimped the card's PCIe interface so it can only use 8 lanes, which would be 8 PCIe 3.0 lanes on your system which are half the speed. It'd still work, but it'd hurt the card's performance in certain situations.

You should definitely look at the used market if you'll only consider Nvidia, because their lower-end offerings from the current and last generation are overpriced trash. Any of the 2070 Super/2080/2080 Super/3060/3060 Ti/3070 would be a large upgrade. Only having 8GB VRAM shouldn't be an issue if you don't play AAA games anyway, especially if you've been getting by just fine with 6GB until now. The 3060 gets you 12GB, but is also the slowest card on that list at ~40% faster than a 1660 Super, whereas a 3070 would be just over double the performance. Probably best to buy from the high street pawn shop chain so you get a 5 year warranty.

 

[deviation]

FWIW, I have had a PCI-E 4.0 16X card in a PCI-E 3.0 motherboard and noticed not difference on B450 to when I upgraded to B550, but as others have said there are a few (rubbish) cards that it might affect, but you don't want them anyway, so just grab a secondhand bargain AM4 B450/B550 platform bundle from the usual places, you can't really loose, one of the known places offers warranty as you might already know.

You could always upgrade the GPU first seeing as yours is playing up? Then look to upgrade the rest as and when funds allow?

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

The RTX5060TI only has an 8X link speed and it's been shown that PCI-E 3.0 and PCI-E 2.0 motherboards cause a performance loss.The RX9060XT 16GB would probably be fine as it has a 16X PCI-E link speed. Also there was some evidence a while back that AMD cards tend to have less CPU driver overhead in DX12 games too.

If you want to spend less - look for a secondhand RTX3060 12GB - it has a full 16X link speed and over 8GB of VRAM.

But I would make sure you upgrade your motherboard BIOS to the latest version first.

 

[DrBombcrater]

The 3060 gets you 12GB, but is also the slowest card on that list at ~40% faster than a 1660 Super, whereas a 3070 would be just over double the performance. Probably best to buy from the high street pawn shop chain so you get a 5 year warranty.

I mentioned the 3060 specifically because the OP plays World of Warships, I do too and I've seen it use over 6GB vram on max settings in some game modes. Future updates will no doubt need more ram, and as it's not a massively demanding game otherwise I'd say it's likely a 3070 would run out of ram before before a 3060 runs out of GPU grunt.

But the 3070 is certainly worth considering.

 

[Tetras]

I'd prefer to stick with nVidia if possible.

My question is, what would be my options for a GPU replacement as I gather a PCIE 4 GPU would be out of the question?

Interesting as I read in another thread that "If you don't have pcie 4.0 then cross Nvidia off your list, 5060 Ti = x8 lanes only".

This is mainly an issue with the 8GB cards when they have run out of VRAM, you can avoid the worst impact by lowering the settings to get the card under, or getting a card with 16 lanes.

The 16GB cards it matters less, but there have been some reports that the latest nvidia cards (5000) do not play nicely with old boards.

Cost is also limited as I'm a pensioner now so please be gentle.

1660 Super is still pretty good (or the replacements are really slow, heh), so unfortunately you're looking at a fair chunk of cash to get a decent upgrade (at least, if you're buying new). If you don't have rebar the B580 is out, which is arguably the best value card in the lower-end. I'd agree with the above about a 3060 12GB, though their raw performance is starting to age against the newer cards and their capability at higher resolutions like 1440p/4K is diminishing.

 

[Aretak]

I mentioned the 3060 specifically because the OP plays World of Warships, I do too and I've seen it use over 6GB vram on max settings in some game modes. Future updates will no doubt need more ram, and as it's not a massively demanding game otherwise I'd say it's likely a 3070 would run out of ram before before a 3060 runs out of GPU grunt.

But the 3070 is certainly worth considering.

One might argue that if they ever upgrade the graphics enough that 8GB of VRAM no longer cuts it, a 3060's raw power (or lack of it) won't cut it either and you'll have to turn settings down either way. Which, personally, I think is fine. There's no need to play on max settings. I don't even play World of Warcraft on max settings, because I can come close to doubling my CPU-bound performance in busy areas for a completely imperceptible visual loss. Either way, you're going to have to make compromises of some sort when dealing with this class of GPU. None of them are perfect solutions. They'd cost much more if they were.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

One might argue that if they ever upgrade the graphics enough that 8GB of VRAM no longer cuts it, a 3060's raw power (or lack of it) won't cut it either and you'll have to turn settings down either way. Which, personally, I think is fine. There's no need to play on max settings. I don't even play World of Warcraft on max settings, because I can come close to doubling my CPU-bound performance in busy areas for a completely imperceptible visual loss. Either way, you're going to have to make compromises of some sort when dealing with this class of GPU. None of them are perfect solutions. They'd cost much more if they were.

The RTX3060 can have better performance than a faster RTX4060! But also Nvidia did have a CPU overhead issue on their cards too for DX12 games.

The RTX4060 and RTX5060 because of their 8X links will have more issues than an RTX3060.

 

[Rob_J]

Many thanks folks, an interestiing read and I appreciate all your comments/suggestions.

Yes I did say I'd prefer nVidia as that is what World of Warships supposedly runs better on but I am open to AMD, I've never had one before so no idea what they're like and no, I don't play AAA games. Going from what I've read onlline, neither WOW or the older FS9/10 use much in the way of VRAM compared to the AAA games of today, though I could be massively wrong on that point.

I did update my BIOS some time last year to the latest F13 version.

So a 3060/3070 12gb or equivalent AMD card would be what I'm looking at? Budget is around £400/450 but less if possible. I must confess I am a little weary about 2nd hand as you don't know how much abuse they've gone through and as I say, funds are tight.

Rob

EDIT to add....

Will my PSU be enough to run the newer card? It's a Corsair AX860

 

[DrBombcrater]

Your PSU should be fine, no worries there. Sticking with NVidia £450 will get you a brand new 5060Ti 16GB or a used 3080Ti 12GB. The 3080 will be faster, but will use a bit more electricity. Used isn't much of a risk, the shop we're talking about gives a free 5 year warranty with their used cards so you actually get a better warranty than buying new.

WoWS runs fine on AMD, I played it on AMD cards for years without any issues. Buying new on your budget I'd get probably a 9060XT 16GB. Those can be had for about £350 and compete with the 5060Ti on performance.

Edit: just tried out WoWS and on max settings it peaked at 6.4GB vram use. So 8GB cards should be fine for a while, but 12/16GB is obviously better if you're going to be keeping the card for a few years.

 

[Rob_J]

Your PSU should be fine, no worries there. Sticking with NVidia £450 will get you a brand new 5060Ti 16GB or a used 3080Ti 12GB. The 3080 will be faster, but will use a bit more electricity. Used isn't much of a risk, the shop we're talking about gives a free 5 year warranty with their used cards so you actually get a better warranty than buying new.

WoWS runs fine on AMD, I played it on AMD cards for years without any issues. Buying new on your budget I'd get probably a 9060XT 16GB. Those can be had for about £350 and compete with the 5060Ti on performance.

Edit: just tried out WoWS and on max settings it peaked at 6.4GB vram use. So 8GB cards should be fine for a while, but 12/16GB is obviously better if you're going to be keeping the card for a few years.

Thank you, but now I'm more than a little confused lol (it's an age thing)

Are you saying I could get a 5060Ti 16GB and it would work OK with my old Z390 PCIe 3 mobo? Forgive me for being a whelk here, but my current 1660 runs in a x16 slot but the 5060Ti is a PCIe x8 card whereas the 9060XT is x16... my mobo does have an 8x slot though, again, apologies for being dense.

Rob

 

[Tetras]

Are you saying I could get a 5060Ti 16GB and it would work OK with my old Z390 PCIe 3 mobo?

There have been a few posts here on the forums and that I've seen elsewhere, where 5000 series cards didn't boot on Z390/Z490 boards. I'd recommend you dig around a bit, if you decide to go that route.

I can only remember one case of a 9060 XT being used on an 8th/9th gen board, it worked.

 

[Rob_J]

There have been a few posts here on the forums and that I've seen elsewhere, where 5000 series cards didn't boot on Z390/Z490 boards. I'd recommend you dig around a bit, if you decide to go that route.

I can only remember one case of a 9060 XT being used on an 8th/9th gen board, it worked.

Thank you, I'll check around re the 9060 XT

 

[Tetras]

Thank you, I'll check around re the 9060 XT

Remember to only buy the 16GB versions of the 9060 XT or 5060 Ti, you don't want the 8GB versions on PCIE-3.0.

FYI: I had a look here and there are 5000 series cards that have been benchmarked, which would suggest your board can work with these cards. If you click one of the profiles, it will tell you the BIOS date of the motherboard. I couldn't find any 9060 XT, but they would have been further than I had the patience to keep clicking next.

 

[DrBombcrater]

Thank you, but now I'm more than a little confused lol (it's an age thing)

Are you saying I could get a 5060Ti 16GB and it would work OK with my old Z390 PCIe 3 mobo? Forgive me for being a whelk here, but my current 1660 runs in a x16 slot but the 5060Ti is a PCIe x8 card whereas the 9060XT is x16... my mobo does have an 8x slot though, again, apologies for being dense.

Rob

The 5060 has a physical 16x PCIe connector but only has 8 of the 16 lanes connected, so it plugs into a 16x slot but data transfer between the PC and the card run at half speed. That's not a huge issue on the 16GB version because all the necessary data gets loaded in one go, but the 8GB one sometimes has to swap data in and out of the graphics card's memory when a game is running so transfer speed is important.

If you're buying new I would suggest just getting a 9060XT anyway. It's cheaper and is a full 16x card, so you don't have to worry about any of this stuff.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Thank you, but now I'm more than a little confused lol (it's an age thing)

Are you saying I could get a 5060Ti 16GB and it would work OK with my old Z390 PCIe 3 mobo? Forgive me for being a whelk here, but my current 1660 runs in a x16 slot but the 5060Ti is a PCIe x8 card whereas the 9060XT is x16... my mobo does have an 8x slot though, again, apologies for being dense.

Rob

The RTX5060TI 16GB is not worth more than £399 at best and can be had for £380. Even at £380,the RX9060XT is £60 cheaper and better value,because you can find it easily for under £320.

At £450 you should be waiting for an RTX5070 12GB deal - these have dipped down on special offer to around £470 to £480 IIRC.

There is also the question of driver overhead too in DX12 games with the RTX4000 series:

There hasn't been any testing so far with the RTX5000 series,so not sure if it has been fixed.