GPU or PSU issue?

[Big Man]

Firstly, I need to make you aware that I'm pretty much in the dark when it comes to hardware. I know how to build a system ( I built this one which has lasted a good few years so far), but when it comes to troubleshooting I get lost, especially when there's a lot of jargon used in the instructions.

That said, here's my problem, sorry for the long post, but there's a lot of information to pass on.

I'm running a Sapphire Radeon 4670, and I'm getting card crashes. It seems as if the monitor stopped receiving a signal from the card. This is happening both with VPURecover switched on or off, the only difference being, that when it's on, VPURecover tries to reset the card without a system restart.

I've been monitoring temps when this happens, and the GPU seems to stop working when it hits around 70 centigrade. I just downloaded FurMark and watched the card go up to 90 centigrade before I bottled out and switched the program off.

When I first built the system I had an 580w Hyper Type R PSU, and ran with no problems whatsoever until one day it just died on me. At the time I was very short of money, and was offered a reconditioned PSU for £15 so I took it. Again the system ran fine, until around a month after installing the new PSU the Radeon GFX card I had in died whilst playing Knights of the Old Republic II (hardly a game that would tax the system overmuch) After speaking to a mate I realised the card had failed totally, and needed replacing. It was showing vertical blue lines on the windows loading screen, then crashing just as it would usually go to my desktop. I could run in safe mode, but that was it.

I replaced the card with the current 4670 and ran for a month or so with no problems, then the current problems started, but were very random and few and far between, so I ignored it and put it down to one of those random times a computer doesn't like something and switches off, or something I had done wrong when building the system or something. Now however I can't play most 3dgraphics games without the card crashing after 5 to 10 minutes tops. I've searched this forum, and the wider net, and found lots of people having similar problems with various Radeon cards, and just as many possible causes and fix suggestions, many of which I can't check because I don't have spare cards/PSU's/computers etc.

Couple of things that might point anyone offering advice in the right direction. Firstly, As I said, this problem is occurring both with VPU recover on and off. Secondly I'm not overclocking anything in this system, not even using ATI Overdrive on the card. Thirdly, the 12v power to the PCI express socket on my motherboard is also running 3 case fans, which could account for a power to card problem, but it's my understanding that this doesn't actually have to be plugged in unless I was running two graphics cards, which I'm not.
The reason I'm thinking it may be something to do with the PSU is a strange reading on CPUID, a hardware monitor that I'm using, I've posted a screenshot below and marked what I suspect the problem is with the red dots.

System Info
CPU: Intel Pentium D805 dual core 2.66gig
Motherboard: ECS PF5 Extreme
Memory: 2x Infineon DDR2 1gig
PSU: Winpower ATX 550L (supposedly 550W)
GPU: Sapphire ATI Radeon HD4670 (RV730XT) 512mb GDDR3 onboard memory.

(yeah, I know this is a very out of date system, but it's been working pretty well up to now. Updates are planned, but money is short right now)

 

[maddness]

anyway to check the 12v line in bios or using a multimeter, its very unlikely cpu-id is reading the 12v correctly

have you tried uninstalling the ati drivers and installing the latest 9.12s

 

[Big Man]

I have a multimeter here, would be useful to know which contacts to put the probes on if anyone knows.

Updated to the 9.12 catalyst drivers and the problem seems to have worsened if anything. That's when I decided I couldn't work the problem out and asked here.

 

[EsaT]

Software readings are always unreliable but strongly suspect crap PSUs damaging components.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

I have a multimeter here, would be useful to know which contacts to put the probes on if anyone knows.

Updated to the 9.12 catalyst drivers and the problem seems to have worsened if anything. That's when I decided I couldn't work the problem out and asked here.

i wouldn't go probing around with a multimeter if u don't know what ur doing PSU's can kill

but if u wanna try at ur own risk just measure the output of a molex 4 pin plug set your multimeter to 20 volts red probe to red wire black probe to black wire should read between 11.70 and 12.30

 

[hyperst]

dont trust cpuid to give correct readings, and dont go probing if you are unsure in the slightest bit

 

[EsaT]

i wouldn't go probing around with a multimeter if u don't know what ur doing PSU's can kill

You're sticking nails into your heart and then connecting wires to those?

Even if you licked connector with your tongue it would just cause tingling feeling because there's not enough voltage to drive high current through resistance of human body.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

You're sticking nails into your heart and then connecting wires to those?

Even if you licked connector with your tongue it would just cause tingling feeling because there's not enough voltage to drive high current through resistance of human body.

*** No insults *** it's not volts that kill you it's amps and considering the rails drives around 20-30 amps at variable voltages if u mess up with ur meter or go probing where u shouldn't then you COULD DIE

 

[bigjimmyauk]

just for you info

Supplies power throughout the computer. Power supplies convert potentially lethal 110-115 or 220-230 volt alternating current (AC) into a steady low-voltage direct current (DC) usable by the computer. A power supply is rated by the number of watts it generates.

WARNING: Do not open the power supply, it contains capacitors which can hold Electricity (WHICH CAN KILL) even if the computer is power off for a week, if not longer. If you do open it, WHICH IS NOT RECOMMENDED, take all precautions and ensure you work with one arm behind your back to direct the electricity away from the heart. Also ensure that you have no jewelry on (such as a watch or rings). However, again, THIS IS NOT RECOMMENDED, and still cannot protect you 100% and is still potentially dangerous. Because of these precautions, no extensive information will be found on this page about opening power supplies.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

did also forget to say the 12volt on your PSU may be a yellow wire just depends on brand and what country of origin stuff like that my 12 volt is red whereas my kids comp is yellow

 

[Big Man]

Even so it was good advice, after all, for all he knew I'd go poking around inside the PSU. I know enough about electricity to know you NEVER take chances with it.

Just for reference my 4 pin plug has 4 wires (duh) coloured red, black black and yellow. Black and red gave a steady reading of 11v (analogue multimeter) Also measured across the same black, and the yellow, which seems to be where the case fans are connected, and the reading was 26v which seemed a bit bloody odd.

Ok I can see these are 2 different circuits now, the black being the - and red/yellow + on each circuit, but I shouldn't think the black/yellow circuit should be giving me a reading of 26v.

Another thing I noticed. There's a 4 pin socket on my motherboard, it's labelled as an ATX4PI auxilliary power connector for graphics cards. The notes in the motherboard manual state that it only needs to be connected if using two GFX cards, however I connected it hoping to give the card a had with a bit of extra juice.
Remember that I have the case fans running on the same circuit, (only one spare 12v 4 pin out on the PSU) and I found when I unplugged the line from this socket a case fan still connected to it started up when I turned the system back on. I thought this was a power in socket, but it seems to be power out from the motherboard. I've disconnected it now, maybe it being connected has been pulling power away from the card and that's what's caused the crashes. I'll be trying it in just a minute, but surely that *should* be a power in socket not power out?

 

[bigjimmyauk]

U got a pic of the mobo and the plug your talking about..
and 26volts is kinda strange and would suggest that your psu is broke if the rails aren't working right and converting the amps and volts correctly then you'll either have no power or a surge of higher power which could possibly kill ur system.
CAN U LIST YOUR FULL SYSTEM SPEC NAME OF MOBO,PROCESSOR ANYTHING U HAVE TO HAND

P:S i would turn the system of for now until u can investigate this 26 volts reading

 

[silversurfer]

You're sticking nails into your heart and then connecting wires to those?

Even if you licked connector with your tongue it would just cause tingling feeling because there's not enough voltage to drive high current through resistance of human body.

Even a 9 volt battery can be deadly if you were to cut your thumbs

http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

He had a Simpson 260 multimeter, a small unit powered by a 9-volt battery. That may not seem powerful enough to be dangerous… but it can be deadly in the wrong hands.

The sailor took a probe in each hand to measure his bodily resistance from thumb to thumb. But the probes had sharp tips, and in his excitement he pressed his thumbs hard enough against the probes to break the skin. Once the salty conducting fluid known as blood was available, the current from the multimeter travelled right across the sailor's heart, disrupting the electrical regulation of his heartbeat. He died before he could record his Ohms.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

i was gonna say that around 4 people a year dies from licking a 9 volt battery and thats fact from medical obtained records do the actual number could be more

 

[silversurfer]

I dont know if that would be as likely because the current has no reason to travel across the heart in that case but seems that darwin guy managed to do exact thing he shouldnt

 

[bigjimmyauk]

sorry big man did'nt see ur spec in sig

 

[bigjimmyauk]

well just looked at ur mobo on their site the 4 pin plug is a female molex and is designed to give extra power to the pci-e slots (something u don't really see these days)
ATX4PI power connector is for power supply plug; it offers adequate
supply of power to the motherboard. The power supply plug is designed
to fit connector in only one orientation. When installing two graphics
cards, do not forget to connect the 4-pin power plug to the ATX4PI. If
not, the system may become unstable.

 

[bigjimmyauk]

I dont know if that would be as likely because the current has no reason to travel across the heart in that case but seems that darwin guy managed to do exact thing he shouldnt

don't take a lot to upset the rythym of a heart thats why electricity is so deadly. i've been hit with 110v before it hurts like hell i seen my friend get hit with 240v from a light switch he was replacing he just swore a lot and went for a sit down but someone else could have easily died from the exact same circumstances, both the human body and electricity are very complex things

 

[EsaT]

Current is decided by Ohm's law.
http://www.gearseds.com/curriculum/images/figures/Web_Ohms_law_triangle.gif
While internal body resistance is from hundreds to thousand Ohm that depends also on distance and in how well conducting tissue "connections" are.
For low voltage resistance contact of dry skin you can add prefix kilo to those values.

Even a 9 volt battery can be deadly if you were to cut your thumbs
http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/darwin1999-50.html

Status: uncorfimed.

I dont know if that would be as likely because the current has no reason to travel across the heart in that case but seems that darwin guy managed to do exact thing he shouldnt

Current follows the path of least resistance, which goes along that "slimy" skin of tongue.
(unusual looking route selection of lightning strike is because resistance can vary lot basing to voltage material is exposed)

 

[Big Man]

well just looked at ur mobo on their site the 4 pin plug is a female molex and is designed to give extra power to the pci-e slots (something u don't really see these days)
ATX4PI power connector is for power supply plug; it offers adequate
supply of power to the motherboard. The power supply plug is designed
to fit connector in only one orientation. When installing two graphics
cards, do not forget to connect the 4-pin power plug to the ATX4PI. If
not, the system may become unstable.

Heh I came back after taking pics to find out you'd found what you wanted

That's what I read in the manual, but surely that suggests it's supposed to have power going in not coming out

While I had the case open again and was taking pics I decided to test the 12v that runs my dvd/cd drives too, and found that it too read 12v across red and wither black wire, and 26v across yellow and either black wire, which definitely doesn't seem right to me, yet nothing that's connected to those 12v lines has ever failed on me, just the previous GFX card, which was connected to and powered from only the mobo.