Grammar Police Triumph!

Bri · 5 Mar 2006 at 11:28

Beansprout said:
When a word ends in s it is technically incorrect to omit the s after the ' in the posessive form however there are exceptions like Jesus where one can write Jesus'

Copied almost verbatim from what I remember from my dictionary so I hope that's right

Well you learn something new every day! So tehnically, Chris's is correct?

ElvisFan · 5 Mar 2006 at 11:55

Bri said:
Well you learn something new every day! So tehnically, Chris's is correct?

It's clumsy though.

I'll use my hero as an example: ELVIS. I would never write, "Elvis's songs". I would write "Elvis' songs".

On a different grammatical matter, it always peeves me when people use the word "won" instead of "beat", as in, "Aa aah! I won you that time!"

philio16 · 5 Mar 2006 at 12:48

Seems a bit unfair if it happens only once or twice in the whole exam paper....repeatedly is understandable though. I remember I wrote about 8 or 9 sides for each of my English GCSE in an hour and a half, and thats quite stressful at 16 and mistakes will be made. (Got an A and an A* though

) You can't fail someone in physics because they get 1 formula the wrong way round can you?

Dazzy_G · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:12

you guys scare me

robmiller · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:14

For all those fretting about obscure examples like "Jesus' vs Jesus's", this penalises only the "grocers' apostrophe"; that is, doing things like:

Cucumber's £1
Cabbage's £1

I'm sure they'll be fine with obscure mistakes like the Jesus example at GCSE level.

dirtydog said:
You can write Jesus' or Jesus's - both are equally valid.

Are they?

I've always thought (and there seem to be a number of online guides supporting this) that "Jesus'" would be appropriate in this context:

There is one Jesu with a red car.
There is another Jesu with a red car.
The Jesus' cars are red.

Since Jesus is a singular noun ending in S, you simply add 's to indicate possession:

There is one Jesus with a red car.
Jesus's car is red.

As in:

Mistakes involving singular possessive nouns ending in "s" are very common; writers frequently - but incorrectly - omit the "s" which proceeds the apostrophe. Examples of common mistakes include references to "Jesus' teachings" (incorrect usage) or "Mr. Jones' car" (incorrect usage); these should read as "Jesus's teachings" and "Mr. Jones's car."

dirtydog · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:35

Ah that is interesting and I stand corrected if that is the case. I may have fallen into the trap of believing that because something is in widespread common usage it must be correct

The "it's" one is a bit like that - you see it incorrectly used everywhere, even sometimes in books or on professional websites etc. Personally I have always thought that "Jesus's" is more logical anyway.

robmiller · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:38

dirtydog said:
Ah that is interesting and I stand corrected if that is the case. I may have fallen into the trap of believing that because something is in widespread common usage it must be correct The "it's" one is a bit like that - you see it incorrectly used everywhere, even sometimes in books or on professional websites etc. Personally I have always thought that "Jesus's" is more logical anyway.

This guy sums up my feelings on the apostrophe pretty well:

First let’s all join in a hearty curse of the grammarians who inserted the wretched apostrophe into possessives in the first place. It was all a mistake. Our ancestors used to write “Johns hat” meaning “the hat of John” without the slightest ambiguity. However, some time in the Renaissance certain scholars decided that the simple “s” of possession must have been formed out of a contraction of the more “proper” “John his hat.” Since in English we mark contractions with an apostrophe, they did so, and we were stuck with the stupid “John’s hat.”

dirtydog · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:46

Hmm I'm not so sure that the use of apostrophes to denote possession *is* such a bad thing personally. It removes all possible ambiguity from what the writer is saying.

DiG · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:53

robmiller said:
Whilst some people certainly have legitimate problems, it strikes me as something that's remarkably straightforward to understand and the fact that people don't bother to do so usually says a lot about them. It doesn't take much effort to learn how speak/write correctly, so why not do so?

I have no legitimate problem, I got a C at GCSE and I try when I'm writing to make it correct, but if I get something wrong by mistake I'm not going to loose sleep over it.

Yes I could just learn it all and that would be fairly easy, but its also fairly easy to learn to ride a horse, that doesn't mean I should go do it though

dirtydog · 5 Mar 2006 at 13:55

DiG said:
I have no legitimate problem, I got a C at GCSE and I try when I'm writing to make it correct, but if I get something wrong by mistake I'm not going to loose (sic) sleep over it.

Yes I could just learn it all and that would be fairly easy, but its also fairly easy to learn to ride a horse, that doesn't mean I should go do it though

Being able to write properly is a bit more useful, if not essential in day to day life than riding a horse so not the best example.

The_Judge · 5 Mar 2006 at 15:35

I just hate it wen ppl use 'would have' wen they **** be using 'would have'

Barbie · 5 Mar 2006 at 16:51

There is no "H" in "Aitch"

Raymond Lin · 5 Mar 2006 at 16:53

They should also fail people who use To instead of Too and vice versa.

I can't stand it, this is to much ! it makes no sense !

robmiller · 5 Mar 2006 at 16:55

The_Judge said:
I just hate it wen ppl use 'would have' wen they **** be using 'would have'

I ate it wen ppl who cant spel tel ppl ow 2 spel

Nikias · 5 Mar 2006 at 16:57

Barbie said:
There is no "H" in "Aitch"

God, yes. Hearing "haitch" really grates on my nerves.

MrMatteh · 5 Mar 2006 at 18:07

Ol!ver said:
I think this is spot on. All they've got to do now is sort out 'there, their and they're' and 'quit. quite and quiet' and we might have a population that can write its own language !

...and loose/lose.

JohnnyG · 5 Mar 2006 at 18:24

Raymond Lin said:
They should also fail people who use To instead of Too and vice versa.

I can't stand it, this is to much ! it makes no sense !

Were you being sarcastic?

Barbie · 5 Mar 2006 at 18:48

Barbie said:
There is no "H" in "Aitch"

I just realised that there is one at the end

but you all knew what i meant

Johnny Girth · 7 Mar 2006 at 17:42

M0KUJ1N said:
Wrong

Im starting to think I should have slacked at uni and studied English so I could become an English teacher tbh...

On a related note, one of the most infurating idiomatic phrases in the English language is "keeping up with the Joneses' ". Unless (by some odd fluke the family name is Joneses) it should be "keeping up with the Jones' ". Of course the interesting point here is how is it actually said? Keeping up with the Jones (as it is written) or " keeping up with the Joneses"? This discrepency between the written and spoken English in this grammatical case is probably where a lot of the confusion about how to punctuate it arises. Unfortunately for its students and users, the English language is inconsistent, frustrating and ambiguous. It is also beautiful, eloquent and expressive!

I love it when some chump replies with "WRONG" when in fact it is he who is wrong.

Check out: http://www.apostrophe.fsnet.co.uk/

amongst numerous other sites, which will inform you of the correct usage.

As I pointed out.