Graphics - 1280x1024

ACESHIGH · 25 Dec 2006 at 11:25

serenity888 said:
how does the x1950pro compare to the 7950gt? i was thinking of getting the 7950gt but costs around £40 dearer and if it's similar performance then i may consider the x1950pro.

The performance is very close between these 2 cards, hence why many are choosing the X1950Pro.

serenity888 · 25 Dec 2006 at 12:17

and how overclocable are the x1950 pro's? mmm might get one of these instead cos they are so much cheaper.

Tobeornottobe · 25 Dec 2006 at 13:01

LoadsaMoney said:
Yeah same here, Oblivion maxed in 1280x1024 (TFT) , 2xAA/16x HQ AF+HDR runs very nice on my x1800 XT 512mb.

x1950pro runs it pretty well also due to having 36x shaders as you can see here , it really is an amazing card for the price, so if your want to keep your spend to around that level then it is the one to go for, but as i said i wouldn't touch the x1950 XTX, not when the new gen 8800 GTS is cheaper than it, so if your thinking of spending that much then the GTS is the one to go for over the XTX.

The 8800GTS is considerably more expensive than the x1950 xt-x at this site.

Cyber-Mav · 25 Dec 2006 at 13:20

people do seem to over estimate the power of these gfx card. oblivion runs crap on my gfx card when all details are set to max with HDR on but no AA at a rez of 1024x768.

dunno how others say it runs great, i guess they are all blagging. i know someone who has a 6800nu and from what it sounds his card is faster than mine.

obviously stuff in oblivion has to be turned down or off like shadows and shadows make a massive performance difference.

so when people say they have everything at max i expect them to have everything turned on and not just some stuff turned on and other things turned down or off. then again whoever says X card can run Y game at max settings all i need to do is look at the card and know weather i should brand this person a n00b and a fool.

and 20fps is hardly playable. playable = 60fps, 35fps = acceptable, just about.

Darkwave · 25 Dec 2006 at 15:40

If you call 60fps "playable" in Oblivion then you're never going to see it looking even 1/4 as good as it does. Lower your standards a bit depending on the type of game (60fps = FPS, 30fps = TBS/RPG) and you might actually be able to play Oblivion.

I dread to think of what kind of rig is needed to run Oblivion at 60fps constant with max settings. I don't think such a rig exists yet, of course Core 2 Duo would yield a big minimum framerate improvement over your Opteron (it definitely was over my 3400+ @ 2.75GHz.)

Since I consider 30fps (and slightly under within reason) playable in a slow-paced game like Oblivion, I can run it utterly maxed at 1440x900 on my rig. When it comes to shooters though I won't rest until it's 60fps constant with vsync on and will turn down settings to get it if I have to.

thefishdude · 25 Dec 2006 at 15:43

oblivion is a very unfair rule of thumb its the most demanding game there is if you want a very high frame rate in that game with everything tunred on you will need to spend shed laods on acouple of 8800 gtxs. most computer websites use oblivion as there gfx card destroyer when reviewing. one 8800 gtx will only get you 40fps at 1280x1024 oxaa 8xaf with the eye candy on

Marc Fraser · 25 Dec 2006 at 16:58

I have just seen a review of Rainbow Six: Vegas over at anandtech. This game is based on the Unreal 3 engine which will be powering a lot of new games over the next year or two. According to the review this is just as stressful as Oblivion.

The x1950pro has fps of 22.3 at the highest quality settings at a resolution of 1280x960. The 8800GTS scores 43.9. This benchmark was run with a c2d x6800. The benchmark did not use any AA.

I think this goes some way to show that if you want to be running at the highest quality settings at 1280x1024 in all games over the next year while getting consistantly smooth playable framerates you will need more than a x1950pro.

Darkwave · 25 Dec 2006 at 17:36

Marc Fraser said:
that if you want to be running at the highest quality settings at 1280x1024 in all games over the next year while getting consistantly smooth playable framerates you will need more than a x1950pro.

If you want to be running at highest quality settings even now you will be spending a lot more than £140, period.

That same Anandtech article says "At this point in time, to really enjoy this game at a decent resolution you will probably want to go with at least a 7600 GT from NVIDIA or better yet an X1650 XT from ATI if you can get your hands on one. GeForce 7900 GS and Radeon X1900 GT are also good options."

Sounds very reasonable to me, for people who aren't hardcore graphics junkies. The rest will probably upgrade to the 8800 series soon enough, or stick with X1950XT-Xs and the like.

LoadsaMoney · 25 Dec 2006 at 17:42

Tobeornottobe said:
The 8800GTS is considerably more expensive than the x1950 xt-x at this site.

Oh yeah it is now with the christmas deals, i forgot about that, i was going off before the deals started, still the GTS is only £35 more now with the deals, so really XTX should be forgotten about, new gen card for an extra £35 now, its a no brainer still, the XTX is appaling at that price.

Marc Fraser · 25 Dec 2006 at 17:52

Ulfhedjinn said:
If you want to be running at highest quality settings even now you will be spending a lot more than £140, period.

That same Anandtech article says "At this point in time, to really enjoy this game at a decent resolution you will probably want to go with at least a 7600 GT from NVIDIA or better yet an X1650 XT from ATI if you can get your hands on one. GeForce 7900 GS and Radeon X1900 GT are also good options."

Sounds very reasonable to me, for people who aren't hardcore graphics junkies. The rest will probably upgrade to the 8800 series soon enough, or stick with X1950XT-Xs and the like.

I quite agree if you want to turn on all detail you will need to spend more than £140. That is why I think the OP should get a better card than the x1950pro.

Quick advice needed

I'm looking for an upgrade to my graphics card, not changing my 1280x1024 sony monitor. I want to get the best graphics possible at this resolution.
I don't think there is any point in going to the latest and greatest card, as it would seem that this is a waste of money at this resolution.

What would you people recommend?

He says he wants the best graphics possible at the resolution. To me that clearly means turning up all the detail and enabling AA and AF.

To do this you are going to need more than a x1950pro. If you are after a cheaper card and do not mind turning down some of the settings then the x1950pro is clearly the card to go for.

I think the OP seemed to be concerned that a 8800 would be overkill for the resolution. Based on the Rainbow Six review it is clearly not if you want to run at 1280x960 with all the detail turned on.

Biohazard · 25 Dec 2006 at 17:58

My 7300GT does not bad at 1280x1024.... like night and day between my old 4800 Ti Se

Darkwave · 25 Dec 2006 at 18:08

Marc Fraser said:
I think the OP seemed to be concerned that a 8800 would be overkill for the resolution. Based on the Rainbow Six review it is clearly not if you want to run at 1280x960 with all the detail turned on.

If the horribly buggy peice of rubbish known as Rainbow Six Vegas is all the OP plays then by all means he should get an 8800GTS, or splash out on an 8800GTX just to be sure because we all know 40fps isn't "playable."

Seriously though. For any other game that isn't Rainbow Six Vegas, even Oblivion, an X1950Pro is more than enough for anybody who doesn't want to spend a fortune. I would still be using an X1800XT 256MB right now if it didn't die on me, and I am definitely in the "graphics whore" category. This X1900XT 512MB was simply the replacement they sent back.

Marc Fraser · 25 Dec 2006 at 18:28

Ulfhedjinn said:
If the horribly buggy peice of rubbish known as Rainbow Six Vegas is all the OP plays then by all means he should get an 8800GTS, or splash out on an 8800GTX just to be sure because we all know 40fps isn't "playable."

Seriously though. For any other game that isn't Rainbow Six Vegas, even Oblivion, an X1950Pro is more than enough for anybody who doesn't want to spend a fortune. I would still be using an X1800XT 256MB right now if it didn't die on me, and I am definitely in the "graphics whore" category. This X1900XT 512MB was simply the replacement they sent back.

I think you are being quite short sighted when it comes to what games the OP is likley to play with this card. Rainbow Six Vegas uses the Unreal 3 Engine. There are plenty more games coming out over the next few years that will use it. It is likely that most people will probably play some of them . Based on the review of Rainbow Six Vegas the x1950pro cannot run it smoothly with all the features turned on without getting choppy in places. It is also worth noting that the review used one of the fastest processors available and did not use AA which will boost the fps a fair bit.

As I said in my first post in this topic I think the decision of what card to get depends on how long the OP is going to keep it and expect it to run his games at maximum detail.

If we ignore the fact that any new games are going to come out then the x1950pro will be able to do the job in all games apart from Rainbow Six Vegas and Oblivion.

When you think about the number of games coming out based on the Unreal 3 Engine that will probably be be as taxing if not more than Rainbow Six Vegas and will likely support AA then the x1950pro may not be up to the job for that long a period of time..

Darkwave · 25 Dec 2006 at 18:41

The engine isn't the only thing that matters, I am not being shortsighted at all. The fact is that Rainbow Six Vegas is horribly buggy and badly optimised as a title, everybody knows this and saying that all Unreal 3 Engine titles will perform similarly is pure speculation at best.

The fact is that an X1950Pro is more than enough for 1280x1024 resolution, even for Oblivion. So far you've only come up with one game that "may or may not" run like crap, for reasons that "may or may not" be related to the game engine. Let's stick to what we know instead of guessing, or we might as well never upgrade again because there's bound to be games/engines coming out even 8800s cannot handle.

Firegod · 25 Dec 2006 at 18:41

There are some good games coming out in awhile, i.e. Crysis, BioShock, C&C3, SupCom so personally like I said in my previous post, if the card is going to be used as a "stop gap" until more DX10 cards are available then the ATi card is a good buy. However, if this card for the new rig has to last awhile (perhaps 1-2 years) then for ~£90 you can have the GTS which is a great card and should cope well with newer, more demanding games on the horizon.

Marc Fraser · 26 Dec 2006 at 01:17

Ulfhedjinn said:
The engine isn't the only thing that matters, I am not being shortsighted at all. The fact is that Rainbow Six Vegas is horribly buggy and badly optimised as a title, everybody knows this and saying that all Unreal 3 Engine titles will perform similarly is pure speculation at best.

Can you explain why Rainbow Six Vegas is badly optimised and back up the fact that everyone knows this. I have not read this anywhere.

I did not say all Unreal 3 Engine titles will perform the same as Rainbow Six Vegas. But you have to consider it as an indication of what they may run like.

Even if Rainbow Six Vegas is "horribly buggy" the benchmarks were run without AA and on one of the fastest CPU's available. If you do not have such a cpu or are able to turn on AA in future Unreal 3 engine games then performace will take a further hit. The review also says that the benchmark was not run at the most stressful parts of the game and therefore the fps may drop further in certain points.

It is not only the Unreal 3 engine we need to consider either. CryEngine 2 which powers Crysis will be out soon.

Ulfhedjinn said:
The fact is that an X1950Pro is more than enough for 1280x1024 resolution, even for Oblivion. So far you've only come up with one game that "may or may not" run like crap, for reasons that "may or may not" be related to the game engine. Let's stick to what we know instead of guessing, or we might as well never upgrade again because there's bound to be games/engines coming out even 8800s cannot handle.

When you say the x1950pro is more than enough in Oblivion are we talking about running it maxed(without shadows) as you did with your x1800xt or actually maxed. i.e. all sliders to the right, HDR 6XAA 16XAF and no ini file tweaks. I do not consider turning off settings as running it maxed. Especially when those settings are ones that put a lot of the strain on the GPU.

My x1900xtx drops to less than 20fps in outdoor areas when I have all the sliders to the right and enable HDR, 6XAA and 16XAF. Even for Oblivion this is not really playable.

Of course there will be games come out in the future that the 8800s can't handle I really don't understand the point you are trying to make. My point is that they will be a lot further down the line than for the x1950pro, in fact there are already games out that the x1950pro does not run completely smoothly if you turn up all the detail and enable AA and AF. Therefore if you want the card to last you for more than a year while maxing out the graphics settings and enabling AA and AF then the 8800 is a better bet. As Firegod said in his previous post and I have said in most of mine, if you want it as a stop gap then it is a cracking card.

I think you have generally missed the point I have been making regarding the x1950pro. I have not said that it is not a good card and cannot run todays titles perfectly well for most people. I have said that if you want a card that will provide "the best graphics possible at this resolution" as requested by the OP then if you want it to do this for more than a year you would be better off getting a 8800.

Tobeornottobe · 26 Dec 2006 at 03:07

Firegod said:
There are some good games coming out in awhile, i.e. Crysis, BioShock, C&C3, SupCom so personally like I said in my previous post, if the card is going to be used as a "stop gap" until more DX10 cards are available then the ATi card is a good buy. However, if this card for the new rig has to last awhile (perhaps 1-2 years) then for ~£90 you can have the GTS which is a great card and should cope well with newer, more demanding games on the horizon.

All good advice. I will be keeping this card for a minimum of a year so I am starting to lean towards the 8800. There is nothing worse than getting a card which will play all your existing games perfectly fine, but when a new game comes out (normally just after you have got the card) it just doesn't cut it. This happened with my X850/Fear. I want to avoid this scenario if possible, and if it costs a few extra quid, so be it.

Tobeornottobe · 27 Dec 2006 at 14:23

Just ordered a BFG8800GTX. :cool:

Ridiculously expensive but never mind!

LoadsaMoney · 27 Dec 2006 at 14:29

Nice one, that wont struggle with anything, cracking card, enjoy. :cool: