Graw 2 with a Ageia PPU.

Pottsey

Pottsey

Pottsey

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Some guys asked me for a video of the PPU in GRAW 2 finely got one.
It’s starting to look pretty good. I like the wind effects my self, they where used in BOS but look even better in GRAW.
http://www.maximumpc.com/article/gra...n_ageias_physx
http://www.planetphysx.com/weblog/archives/2007/06/graw_2_ageia_island_footage.html#more

“This mission will take full advantage of the lastest tech for the PPU including a new force-field wind system which is used to blow the leaves around and really adds to the level of detail. Other features of note are rumored to include a full destruction system which will allow every fence, tree, building and gun nest to be systematically destroyed.”
 
Nothing we can use yet then?

Oh well, s'pose it makes you feel like it's a warranted piece of hardware, eh?

-RaZ
 
Looks nice, but the effects seem way overblown - I doubt a 40mm grenade would make a house or tower completely disintegrate like that. Nice effects, but being the realism freak that I am, I'll pass.
 
Looks great, a bit ott but I guess need to sell it. Not a munitions expert so dunno what a gun mounted grenade does. Looks like playing during a tropical storm.

Must say if all games will be like that I'm sold on the aegia card.
 
"Nothing we can use yet then?
Oh well, s'pose it makes you feel like it's a warranted piece of hardware, eh?"
20 ish odd games out and more demos. So I dont know what you mean by nothing we can use yet. Even the GRAW 2 demo makes use of the PPU.

The map takes place dueing a storm. Which is why so many things blow about.
 
Yes, but which of those '20-ish' games actually use it well? Well enough to showcase it and make people sit back and think "Wow, this is a really worth-while investment"?

I remember GRAW's support for it - it introduced some more physical objects to the area, and that's it. If you shot a wall, more rubble appeared.

And with quite a frame-rate hit.

Not exactly inspiring stuff, is it?

-RaZ
 
it looks good, but I'm just wondering wont you be able to do any of that stuff like blow up the wooden towers/shacks in the game even if you don't have the ppu card - could it be enough to just have the Ageia software installed?...i've seen stuff like that in crysis videos and i don't think that supports physx hardware? I guess my worry is if that if those effects can only be achieved on computers with a ppu, players who don't have one will be missing out on a seemingly large (and fun looking :D ) aspect of the game play. I guess that will also mean the ppu effects will have to be totally removed for multiplayer to make sure every game is suitable for every player.
it does look very good though...tempting me to buy one i must admit, I already have graw 2 on preorder.

edit: Okay i did a bit more reading from one of those websites and there was this quote:

" but only one level (dubbed Ageia Island, appropriately enough) requires a PhysX card—you can't unlock the level without it. Could this be just a marketing ploy? I guess it's possible, but I’ve never seen such detailed physics in a game."

maybe those videos are from the one level that has the full ageia physx engine enabled, and the other levels that everyone can access wont be as impressive or interactive physics wise.
 
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I'm curious also, because very similair has been shown in Crysis footage (the nuclear blast and the tank steamrolling a shack for example) and that does not require a PPU. It should be said though, if UT3 turns out to be popular and it really does the small effects well that the PPU is supposed to contribute to, I might give it a try.
 
“I remember GRAW's support for it - it introduced some more physical objects to the area, and that's it. If you shot a wall, more rubble appeared.
And with quite a frame-rate hit.”
Why does everyone always go on about GRAW 1? Every other game made better use of the PPU then GRAW 1. We all know GRAW was rubbish and had the PPU patched in last minuet. As for the frame hit that was fixed a long time ago. Just look at the 3 BOS games, Infernal and you will see how the PPU is used in other games. Both use more then just more rubble. Bos even has the wind effect.

Is the nuke blast scripted or dynamic real-time? Anyone got a vid?


EDIT
"maybe those videos are from the one level that has the full ageia physx engine enabled, and the other levels that everyone can access wont be as impressive or interactive physics wise."
That is correct the video is form the PPU only level. The normal levels have two higher level physics options. There is high and extreme also you cannot blow eveything up like in the PPU level.
 
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Looks pretty good to me - I wonder how persistent the pieces are once you have destructed them.

like d34d_m34t says - it does make you wonder how much of the gameplay is actually reliant on the PPU. The Ageia PhysX engine is very capable without the hardware. Ageia lets developers get the API for free as long as they include the hardware support but simple business means that since there is diddly numbers of the GPU hardware out there they'd be foolish to distribute the game and make it totally reliant on it.
 
"Looks pretty good to me - I wonder how persistent the pieces are once you have destructed them"
It says they hang around and it shows screenshots but its not clear how after the screenshot was taken. I think thats why its a PPU only level as it would cause problems playing with none PPU people.
 
It's almost tempting to buy a PPU.... I loved GRAW, and am really looking forward to 2.

I was looking at some of the other games out that supported AGEAI ppu, and some of them look cool.

Maybe.... just maybe...
 
bahahahaha, ppu's suck complete ass. those explosions were awful. every one of those huts/towers exploding, as long as the explosions were near them they all exploded in a almost scripted way. algorithm = if explosions is near wooden structure have said wooden structure explode from the middle outwards.

those explosions are completely unrealistic. the tower for instance, explosion at the top yet the huge beam/pylon/posts holding the tower up all shattered/splintered in the same way and all blew outwards as if there was the same explosion right in the middle of all 4 posts. the houses all exploded in a bomb in centre of house way even if the explosion wasn't in the centre, everything blew from a central point outwards that wasn't near the explosion. the only semi decent looking bits were the individual fence pieces being hit by bullets.

none of that wouldn't be doable without a PPU. the explosions looked scripted and uniform for one thing which is easily doable on cpu, think boxes in hl2 all breaking apart in much the same way. if a ppu is simply going to estimate and run basic explosions then they are pointless. the idea behind the PPU is to calculate the blast radius, and calculate what gets damaged, what direction things fly , how they fly, where and how they land and in that vid none of that is being done really at all. the main thing here would be the realism of house compared to location of explosion, and thats completely and utterly missing here.

better physics from more experience in game design and more complex enviroments that are more reactive come from simply gfx and cpu hardware getting more powerful, hard drives getting bigger so games being bigger and designers having more space/scope with which to do their work.

we've already seen far more realistic splintering and reaction of wood in the tech vids for the star wars game that was targetted for early next year, and thats done all on cpu up to the vid we saw. it showed stuff hugely better than this.
 
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But why are people getting excited over one level? Surely if they'd already started playing with it since GRAW1, they could have started building GRAW2 from scratch with it?

Letting people with a PPU have the chance to play through the entire single player campaigne with this sort of effect level would be a great idea.

Getting excited over what - 1 year old hardware? - being supported in 1 level with a new game seems a bit silly in the grand scheme of things; especially considering there are possibly more viable (and cost effective) options becoming available from the likes of ATi etc.

-RaZ
 
“But why are people getting excited over one level?….. being supported in 1 level with a new game seems a bit silly”
Its not one level, every level has PPU support. Just the one level is for the PPU only. Even the demo has support in both levels.



“considering there are possibly more viable (and cost effective) options becoming available from the likes of ATi etc.”
ATI solution is not more viable as it doesn’t do gameplay physics and it's also not more cost effective as it costs more. Its also less viable as it has no game support.



“it showed stuff hugely better than this.”
Any links?




“none of that wouldn't be doable without a PPU.!”
Any evidence, I don’t think the wind is possible without a PPU. Every single thing is able to be blown up, rubble doesn’t disappear like it does in other games.

I don’t agree on the explosions either. It doesn’t look or act scripted, playing the demo it’s different every time. Though I do agree on explosions don’t look real its more hollowed style explosions. But that’s down to artist/developer interpretation and how they want it to look




“the idea behind the PPU is to calculate the blast radius, and calculate what gets damaged, what direction things fly , how they fly, where and how they land and in that vid none of that is being done really at all.”
All that is being done. It even goes as far as the wind from the blast radius blows trees and leaves about. Explosion parts go flying. We have never seen wind as good as this in any other none PPU game. Its 100fold better then the wind in Alan Wake.

In the demo you can lay mines/C4 on tanks where you place mines/C4 effect’s the way the explosions acts and parts go flying.
 
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Pottsey said:
“But why are people getting excited over one level?….. being supported in 1 level with a new game seems a bit silly”
Its not one level, every level has PPU support. Just the one level is for the PPU only. Even the demo has support in both levels.
Click to expand...

Yes, there's support for the PPU - but there's nothing that showcases the PPU. If Aegia hadn't offered Ubi a fair sum of money (or a huge discount on their physics API), I wouldn't be overly surprised to see this sort of technology being show-cased on a dual - or even quad - core set-up.


Pottsey said:
“considering there are possibly more viable (and cost effective) options becoming available from the likes of ATi etc.”
ATI solution is not more viable as it doesn’t do gameplay physics and it's also not more cost effective as it costs more. Its also less viable as it has no game support.
Click to expand...

It doesn't do gameplay physics yet, as there's no game support. But to be honest, there's barely any game support for Aegia at the moment! And I'm sure ATi have far more influence than Aegia...

As for costing more, it depends which way you look at it. My X1950Pro isn't really worth much on the second hand market - if I were so inclined, I could buy a new graphics card and use the X1950 Pro as a dedicated physics card. Alternatively, I could sell the X1950 Pro for what, £75? Purchase a new graphics card, and have to purchase a seperate PhysX card for what, £125?

Pottsey said:
“none of that wouldn't be doable without a PPU.!”
Any evidence, I don’t think the wind is possible without a PPU. Every single thing is able to be blown up, rubble doesn’t disappear like it does in other games.
Click to expand...
Any evidence that it does NEED a PPU to do it? Look at Cell Factor - that 'required' a PhysX card to run, yet by simply using Notepad, that could be worked around. As far as I know, the only missing feature was the cloth - and I'm sure that could be fixed if they developers designed it for use on a dual core processor rather than a dedicated PPU.

Pottsey said:
“the idea behind the PPU is to calculate the blast radius, and calculate what gets damaged, what direction things fly , how they fly, where and how they land and in that vid none of that is being done really at all.”
All that is being done. It even goes as far as the wind from the blast radius blows trees and leaves about. Explosion parts go flying. We have never seen wind as good as this in any other none PPU game. Its 100fold better then the wind in Alan Wake.
Click to expand...

Yes, but maybe the Alan Wake developers decided they didn't need better wind? Perhaps they reached the stage where they thought they were adding increasing cpu overhead for little benefit?


Pottsey said:
In the demo you can lay mines/C4 on tanks where you place mines/C4 effect’s the way the explosions acts and parts go flying.
Click to expand...

Again, that's not exactly something that requires a dedicated PPU - even Source has objects that will fly away from explosions depending on its angle from the explosion and the explosion's origin...

-RaZ
 
Pottsey said:
“But why are people getting excited over one level?….. being supported in 1 level with a new game seems a bit silly”
Its not one level, every level has PPU support. Just the one level is for the PPU only. Even the demo has support in both levels.
Click to expand...

What features do the regular levels have that need to a ppu to activate? I don't see how it could be anything that actually affects the way you play the game, such as explodable buildings, fences etc, or that would be unfair to non ppu using players. Is it just added debris etc?
 
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