Greece Elections

22:00 GMT is the deadline for Greece. Apparently there's all sort of frantic negotiating going between Athens and Brussals on to avoid doom.

Take a look a this. UK banks are owed 10Bn by Greece anyone want to take a bet that a large chunk of that belongs to those plonkers at RBS?

Yep, and it will all have to be written off if Greece goes belly up which is why the EU despite their tough talk do not want a default and exit from the Euro. Peston's summary of the problem of the Greek Euro exit revealed a lot.
 
German and France simply won't let them leave the EU, doesn't matter how they spin it to the media, they won't let them leave

If they manage to escape, I'll eat my hat
 
How, exactly, was austerity "working"?

The Greek economy has shrunk hugely in size and it's debt-to-GDP ratio has grown. Its national assets have been sold off at bargain basement prices and its healthcare system has collapsed to the point that people are dying from lack of drugs. Incomes have been slashed and pensions cut. Unemployment has soared to levels higher than those of the US during the Great Depression and youth unemployment has hit 60%.

How, exactly, is this austerity "working"? What does austerity not working look like if you're chalking this up as austerity "working"?

The problem is, and Greece was nver going to do it, people in Greece need to start paying taxes to their government.

did you know only 5% of doctors in Greece earn over 12,000 euros and pay tax? Clearly many of them do earn over 12,000 euros.

The unions for years got more and more workers reclassified as heavy manual work so they could draw pension 40. This was introduced so help miners who do have a hard life and a much short expected life expectancy not waiters which got added to the category along with train drivers

The abuse of self employed status and 12,000 euro tax free. People earn way over this but have their land split into every family member so their income falls below.

Massive cash culture - tax evasion. My in laws live in Greece and their landlord owns 12 houses which he rents out as well as farming hundreds of acres of olive trees. Rent has two prices - through the books or cash. All 12 people choose to pay cash. He land is split up and supposedly "owned" by 29 family members so each don't incur tax. He buys a new car every year and and a new boat yet has a taxable income below 12,000 euros.

The vast majority of all the country's tax revenue comes from civil servants, police, train drivers etc. As these are employed by the government they are taxed properly through PAYE. Hardly anybody else in Greece apparently earns over the 12,000 euro tax free amount :rolleyes:

Train drivers get paid £60,000 per annum and still complain its not enough. The whole rail system is a joke. They take £80m per year and ticket sales and pay £500m a year in wages to the staff never mind running costs. I think somebody once worked out it would be cheaper to pay for a taxi for every passenger who uses the trains.

Abuse of tax laws - like the stupid one you dont pay their equivalent of "council tax" unless the house is finished. Hence if you leave the next floor unbuilt with the metal supports sticking up, you never finish the house and never are subject to tax. Same with road fund./car tax. This is only payable or enforced when you sell your car. You are meant to go to the local mayors office and pay all the years car tax before its tranfered over to the next owner. This never happens. Cars either get sold for money but ownership never changes especially in extended families or eventually the 20 or 30 years car tax is so much that your pay a guy with a jcb 50 euros and he buries the car. You wont believe how many buried cars there are in Greece.

Corruption is rife. My father in law got a speeding ticket. They actually told him at the local council office that he should wait until he was out of the country before submitting his licence and for a "fee" of 60 euros they would accept any licence for the endorsement to go on.

After decades of people not paying taxes the Greek people would never vote in a government which would do so.

Personally i think Greece never should have been allowed in. Wasn't it shown that their initial financial statement was all lies and they were basically bankrupt when they joined?

And as for government owned assets, they hardly have any left or cant be trusted to "sell" them. Some of the best and most valuable assets was swapped for 45 acres of worthless land with a monastary in 2008. That alone gave £100m of property away back in 2008.


So basically we have a country in which the majority of people never pay tax but those that do demand huge wages (eg train drivers) and almost everybody expects the state to pay them a pension from 40.

And people wonder why they are in a mess?
 
I think Greece will vote no on Saturday and after a series of protracted negotiations, Greece will default and exit the Eurozone. I don't think they will exit the EU, but I think the Germans will take the hit rather than give more ground to Greece.

Greece needs to make fundamental reforms regardless if they default or not though, it's simply not sustainable as it is in any form.

Basically if they vote No it shoudl be automatic that they leave the eurozone. They will have to issue their own currency on the back of a no vote which automatically kicks them out of the eurozone.

Then the fun starts
 
a political merry go round. ::o

I tend ti think Greece will vote no if the government puts its weight behind it. however I'm not even sure what they are voting for as there is no agreement with the creditors and tomorrow is payday to the IMF.

You have to laugh that the "no" box is first on the ballot paper :D
 
How does that graph show that?

Because we have the largest banking exposure outside of the US. The rest of the money is state loans. The loss of payment on state loans is no big deal for those involved, at least over the shorter term. Banks, on the other hand will suffer rather more from their losses due to the rules governing them and the knock-on effect of damage to the banking sector will dent the real economy.

Now, £10bn is hardly going to be enough of a loss to really shake the UK banking industry but it's still interesting that we have the worst exposure.
 
Well, you had said the biggest hit. Now it's second to the US.

In case you hadn't noticed the US is a teeny bit bigger than the UK

Then what effect would it have on the Euro/Eurozone, and therefore its members?

The ensuing Eurozone cluster-copulation is going to have much more damaging effects; I was referring only to the direct effect of the loans not being paid.
 
Because we have the largest banking exposure outside of the US. The rest of the money is state loans. The loss of payment on state loans is no big deal for those involved, at least over the shorter term. Banks, on the other hand will suffer rather more from their losses due to the rules governing them and the knock-on effect of damage to the banking sector will dent the real economy.

Now, £10bn is hardly going to be enough of a loss to really shake the UK banking industry but it's still interesting that we have the worst exposure.

We have the worst exposure from our banks? Is this in addition to our government exposure, or did the govt not lend directly?
I am struggling to find the figures.

It is interesting that our banks off the bank of their own financial crisis backed the worst possible horse in the world bar Puerto Rica, while govt owned, did this not need to be sanctioned in any way?
 
We have the worst exposure from our banks? Is this in addition to our government exposure, or did the govt not lend directly?
I am struggling to find the figures.

It is interesting that our banks off the bank of their own financial crisis backed the worst possible horse in the world bar Puerto Rica, while govt owned, did this not need to be sanctioned in any way?

Luckily we vetoed the bailout loans.

I expect a lot of that bank debt is historical from the package up and sell anything era pre-crash. But little would surprise me with the greedy brigade.
 
It is interesting that our banks off the bank of their own financial crisis backed the worst possible horse in the world bar Puerto Rica, while govt owned, did this not need to be sanctioned in any way?

I presume banks carry a mixed risk portfolio. Greek loans are risky, sure, but they're also high yield.
 
Massive cash culture - tax evasion. My in laws live in Greece and their landlord owns 12 houses which he rents out as well as farming hundreds of acres of olive trees. Rent has two prices - through the books or cash. All 12 people choose to pay cash. He land is split up and supposedly "owned" by 29 family members so each don't incur tax. He buys a new car every year and and a new boat yet has a taxable income below 12,000 euros.

If thats true, why dont you report him in the nearest IRS ?
 
Back
Top Bottom