Greenlizard0 PL & Championship Football Thread ** spoilers ** [30th Dec - 1st Jan 2023]

BaZ87 said:
It's never been the case of it not being necessary (Klopp confirmed that we tried to sign Touchameni) but we know Klopp and the club won't settle for 2nd best. From the moment Klopp arrived, if the right player wasn't available then he'd wait until we could get the right player. We rolled that dice so many times in previous years and thankfully we always won the gamble but it's not come off this time.
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It's been 18 months since Wijnaldum left on a free transfer, we haven't signed any replacements. It's fair to sat we did not think it was necessary to replace him.

This whole "we never get 2nd choices" is not true at all, we've settled for 2nd best several times and they worked out. We wanted to sign Gotze and couldn't, so we got Mane. We wanted Sarr and it didn't go through, so we got Jota. We signed Konaté after missing out on Upamecano.

The idea that there was only one midfielder in the whole world (Touchameni) who was a right player is absurd. There are always alternarives and if we haven't identified them then it's due to a poor recruitment performance. We just didn't think it was necessary back in the summer to improve our midfield, until the final day with the rushed deal for Arthur, I'm just hoping we don't continue with this mentality. As much as we can praise our recruitment of defenders and attackers, our recruitment of midfielders is mediocre.

You only have to look at the likes of Ox and Keita to see why the club are so picky and go down this route and it's because if a player doesn't work out, for whatever reason, you cannot shift them. Anybody we sign will be earning far more than any club that would want our rejects would be willing to pay them. There's no right or wrong way and with hindsight everything is easy but doing the opposite of what we've done is as dangerous and full of as much risk as doing what we done.
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If anything, this absurd idea of "it's either this one guy or absolutely nobody else in the whole world" is the opposite of what we've been doing with our successful transfer strategies in defence and attack. We are doing the opposite in midfield and it hasn't worked out.

Btw, Keita and Ox were 1st choices. It's not like they were 10th choice players we settled on. I believe Ox was good business and just unlucky with the knee injury but we should have known better for Keita.
 
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Bigpig said:
Go and look at his stats and see his starting Position.

He's a carbon copy of Bruno G who classifies himself as a DM but that good he can play anywhere and basically does. Check their heat maps.

Football is moving on from just a big brute who wins balls and passes to a passer.

Enzo has very good stats for Interceptions, ball recovery and progression from deep.

Little weak in the tackle.

Winning the ball and then transition from defensive to attack.

You can do what you want with him but his career so far has been mostly DM/Pivot

Here you go a basic breakdown of his whole career so far.

And by the write up below hes seems perfect for Liverpool.

Enzo Fernandez: Benfica’s Argentine Midfield Maestro - Breaking The Lines

Enzo Fernandez has definitely had a tournament to remember this World Cup, winning the trophy and Young Player Of The Tournament. However, Leandro Paredes was originally given the nod by Lionel Scaloni above Fernandez in the defeat to Saudi Arabia. Still, Scaloni kept Enzo Fernandez out of the...
breakingthelines.com breakingthelines.com

And if you don't want to read that here's stats last 50

His current positions
Defensive Midfielder (Centre)24-
Midfielder (Centre)13-
Attacking Midfielder (Centre)10-
Attacking Midfielder (Right)2-
Midfielder (Right)1
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Enzo is not the typical hard tackling combative defensive midfielder. He's more of a box-to-box player, even when he plays in a more defensive position.

He wins a lot of balls because he's super intelligent at reading the game, covering attacking runs and he does a lot of interceptions and wins an absurd amount of second balls as he's always in the right place at the right time, but he wouldn't be suitable as our pivot in midfield. He can suit us quite well if he plays as one of the other two midfielders in our 4-3-3, as long as we have a proper defensive midfielder.

Argentina (and Benfica) play a different style where the pivot is less combative and that is provided by other midfielders (like De Paul for Argentina or Florentino in Benfica), but we would need that from our pivot. We tried to play this way in the 2020-21 season with Thiago as the pivot when we didn't have CBs and it didn't work out.

I agree Enzo can be an excellent signing but only if we can utilise him well.
 
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HACO said:
It's been 18 months since Wijnaldum left on a free transfer, we haven't signed any replacements. It's fair to sat we did not think it was necessary to replace him.

This whole "we never get 2nd choices" is not true at all, we've settled for 2nd best several times and they worked out. We wanted to sign Gotze and couldn't, so we got Mane. We wanted Sarr and it didn't go through, so we got Jota. We signed Konaté after missing out on Upamecano.

The idea that there was only one midfielder in the whole world (Touchameni) who was a right player is absurd. There are always alternarives and if we haven't identified them then it's due to a poor recruitment performance. We just didn't think it was necessary back in the summer to improve our midfield, until the final day with the rushed deal for Arthur, I'm just hoping we don't continue with this mentality. As much as we can praise our recruitment of defenders and attackers, our recruitment of midfielders is mediocre.



If anything, this absurd idea of "it's either this one guy or absolutely nobody else in the whole world" is the opposite of what we've been doing with our successful transfer strategies in defence and attack. We are doing the opposite in midfield and it hasn't worked out.

Btw, Keita and Ox were 1st choices. It's not like they were 10th choice players we settled on. I believe Ox was good business and just unlucky with the knee injury but we should have known better for Keita.
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Re Wijnaldum - we signed his replacement a year before he left which seems to have been forgotten.

I don't believe for one moment that it was a case of Gotze or Mane - they were two completely different players. I also don't believe we were truly in for Sarr either. There was not a chance we were signing another forward that would have been away during AFCON when we already had Mane & Salah. As for Upamecano - it was reported prior to either leaving Leipzig, by very reliable journo's that Konate was our first choice CB and I 1000% believe that. We only buy giant CB's. But regardless of all that, that's not the point. It's not a case of 1 single player but a case of only signing players who we believe will be the long term answer. We won't sign players just because they're marginal improvements on what we have because you're still going to need to upgrade that position in 6 or 12 months time.

And yes, I know Keita and Ox were 1st choice targets. The point I was making is that the clubs strategy is to have as high a bar as possible when it comes to identifying transfer targets to minimise wastage because if you sign the wrong player, you cannot get rid of them. Ox and Keita haven't worked because of injury problems but we've been stuck with them until their contracts run out because no club that would want them, can afford to pay them £150k per week.

We could have gone out in the summer and bought a midfielder that would have improved us this season but unless that midfielder was going to be the ultimate, long term answer to what we needed then it was a risk because there's no guarantee that we'd be able to move them on and if we can't move them on, it will impact our ability to sign the long term answer to our needs. As I said, there's no 1 right or wrong way and with hindsight, absolutely we should have signed that marginal improvement player in the summer but it's not without risk, which some people fail to acknowledge. So many supporters just want to spend money and when that signing doesn't work, expect the club to just spend again and again.
 
HACO said:
Enzo is not the typical hard tackling combative defensive midfielder. He's more of a box-to-box player, even when he plays in a more defensive position.

He wins a lot of balls because he's super intelligent at reading the game, covering attacking runs and he does a lot of interceptions and wins an absurd amount of second balls as he's always in the right place at the right time, but he wouldn't be suitable as our pivot in midfield. He can suit us quite well if he plays as one of the other two midfielders in our 4-3-3, as long as we have a proper defensive midfielder.

Argentina (and Benfica) play a different style where the pivot is less combative and that is provided by other midfielders (like De Paul for Argentina or Florentino in Benfica), but we would need that from our pivot. We tried to play this way in the 2020-21 season with Thiago as the pivot when we didn't have CBs and it didn't work out.

I agree Enzo can be an excellent signing but only if we can utilise him well.
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We're just getting pernickety now.

What you are describing is an anchor.

Last I say on it the lad for most of his career has been deployed as a DM.

That could change and probably will same as Bruno G.

Easy

Find close to 200million down the back of the sofa buy Enzo and the lad from Brighton and call it a day.
 
Bigpig said:
We're just getting pernickety now.

What you are describing is an anchor.

Last I say on it the lad for most of his career has been deployed as a DM.

That could change and probably will same as Bruno G.

Easy

Find close to 200million down the back of the sofa buy Enzo and the lad from Brighton and call it a day.
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That's the difference between signing an all-time great and someone who flops after a big transfer fee.

BaZ87 said:
Great post but @manic111 was talking about Eze from Palace, not Enzo :p
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The difference is just a `n` and an `o`, or just `No`. To both of them. :D
 
BaZ87 said:
I like him but I don't see where he fits into our side tbh. I said the same recently re Bellingham too but I think with him, he's so good that you find a place for him if you can get him. Our priority needs to be adding some bite and energy in midfield though. I think if we can do that then a lot of the other issues can and will be solved by players we already have. If you can add some energy alongside him, so he's not having to defend such wide open spaces, I think Fabinho will improve immeasurably. Likewise, if you've got the protection behind him then Thiago's freed up to do more ball carrying and line breaking which he's hugely underrated at and if you can get Thiago 20 yards up the pitch more often, not only is he in more dangerous areas to pick his passes but he's a fantastic counter-presser too.
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Yeah agreed, finding the right player to fit into our current setup is going to be the trickiest issue. I also agree that I'm not quite sure how Jude fits in, unless you restrict him to the Henderson role but that feels a waste of his talents.

A move for Eze would require a change of role for him, as we did with Gini. I think he's got all the abilities needed to perform that role, but it would take time for him to adapt, and it may well be that the Liverpool "project" has moved on. When we signed Gini and converted him into a CM that was probably the best we could do for what we could afford (and it ended up being very good), but from the sounds of it we can afford a more ready made solution now.
 
Before somebody takes it seriously, my thumbs up to Robs post was tongue in cheek. No rules have been broken (I know Rob and fez's posts were tongue in cheek too) - topics can evolve from discussing the game into other things and because of our spoiler rules it's not always possible to move posts into the transfer thread as they may hint at the outcome of games.
 
My initial thought was "is right la" and thought it was you doing a funny.

Rashford dropped for disciplinary reasons...wonder what he's been up to.
 
FYI for anyone who has Sky with UHD and BT Sports through them, they’ve finally resolved the issues they had at the start of the season and made it so BT Sport Ultimate (BT Sports UHD channel) is on channel 493. (It was going to be via red button, but there were issues apparently)
 
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