Greenlizard0 PL & FA Cup SF Football Thread ** spoilers ** [20th - 25th April 2024]

BaZ87 said:
Sorry, I thought what I was saying was clear but to clarify, I'm exposing what I believe to be disingenuous posts from yourself designed to distract from a valid point of criticism rather than engage in a proper debate.

But to answer your question, what controlling a game looks like is subjective but I'd say Utd would have more control and be less exposed to attacks with 3 proper midfielders in the side, yes. Pointing to being without 2 defenders as a cause for your midfield being more open than a hookers legs is a bit misleading.

And you don't have to say every player is **** and while you may criticise fans that say this, it could be argued that you make out things are far rosier than they actually are too. And this exchange highlights that.
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It's not at all misleading (also it's 7 defenders not 2, now who is being disingenuous?) We can't play a high line with Maguire and Evans as our 2 CB's (or Maguire and Casemiro yesterday) that should be obvious. Klopp and Pep are not walking into the current United team and somehow making a side that controls games. We just don't have the players available. Even when fully fit we would struggle because a large percentage of the squad is assembled by managers playing different styles of football. If you seriously think Casemiro, McT and Mainoo could control a game better then jesus Baz.

I'm not making out anything is rosy, where the hell have I said that?
 
Shamikebab said:
It's not at all misleading (also it's 7 defenders not 2, now who is being disingenuous?) We can't play a high line with Maguire and Evans as our 2 CB's (or Maguire and Casemiro yesterday) that should be obvious. Klopp and Pep are not walking into the current United team and somehow making a side that controls games. We just don't have the players available. Even when fully fit we would struggle because a large percentage of the squad is assembled by managers playing different styles of football. If you seriously think Casemiro, McT and Mainoo could control a game better then jesus Baz.

I'm not making out anything is rosy, where the hell have I said that?
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You cannot play 7 defenders, not unless you're suggesting that's what it takes when you have Fernandes in midfield. You are without 2 defenders and your defenders (whether 2 or 7) are not the reason for your midfield being wide open. Your defence will impact on how well you deal with the attacks you face but it's the rest of the side that's responsible for the fact that you're facing so many attacks.

And jesus Shami, if you think that having 3 proper central midfielders won't give you more control and help you prevent so many attacks on goal then it's probably not worth continuing this debate. I think it's probably only you and ETH that thinks that and that's probably why you think nobody could do a better job and he needs more time.
 
BaZ87 said:
You cannot play 7 defenders, not unless you're suggesting that's what it takes when you have Fernandes in midfield. You are without 2 defenders and your defenders (whether 2 or 7) are not the reason for your midfield being wide open. Your defence will impact on how well you deal with the attacks you face but it's the rest of the side that's responsible for the fact that you're facing so many attacks.

And jesus Shami, if you think that having 3 proper central midfielders won't give you more control and help you prevent so many attacks on goal then it's probably not worth continuing this debate. I think it's probably only you and ETH that thinks that and that's probably why you think nobody could do a better job and he needs more time.
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So players being injured and other players coming in (3rd or 4th choices in this case) not being able to do the same things as the injured player is not a valid reason for our number of shots conceded? Especially when you couple that with a DM whose legs have gone. These aren't valid reasons are they?

The fact you just called McT a proper midfielder and Bruno isn't makes your point entirely moot. If you think those three could control games better then you're just wrong. If you're trying to use a strawman and claim 3 'other' midfielders could then yes of course they could but we don't have them so it's meaningless and adds nothing to the discussion. I didn't say nobody could do a better job, I said there is nothing to suggest anyone could do a better job even if some top class manager was available (they aren't). Do you seriously think Pep and Klopp could come in and do better with this squad and the structure ETH has had to deal with? Pep has to buy a whole new squad to play his football so he's a definite no.

Also I think you might have missed the last point Baz, where did I say everything was rosy?
 
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Shamikebab said:
So players being injured and other players coming in (3rd or 4th choices in this case) not being able to do the same things as the injured player is not a valid reason for our number of shots conceded? Especially when you couple that with a DM whose legs have gone. These aren't valid reasons are they?

The fact you just called McT a proper midfielder and Bruno isn't makes your point entirely moot. If you think those three could control games better then you're just wrong. If you're trying to use a strawman and claim 3 'other' midfielders could then yes of course they could but we don't have them so it's meaningless and adds nothing to the discussion. I didn't say nobody could do a better job, I said there is nothing to suggest anyone could do a better job even if some top class manager was available (they aren't). Do you seriously think Pep and Klopp could come in and do better with this squad and the structure ETH has had to deal with? Pep has to buy a whole new squad to play his football so he's a definite no.

Also I think you might have missed the last point Baz, where did I say everything was rosy?
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Being without 2 of your back 4 is not a valid reason for your midfield being wide open, no. And I didn't call McTominnay a proper midfielder. I purposely didn't name any individuals, simply stating that having 3 proper midfielders would give Utd more control than 2 + Fernandes - and those were the original words I used before you replied to me with x, y & z. But if you want an example of 3 who would provide Utd with more control and better at preventing attacks (the key words being more and better) then Mainoo, Casemiro + either of Amrabat or Eriksen would do that, albeit in differing ways. And no, I don't think those 3 are the long term option but you wanted an example of 3 players that would provide Utd with more control.

And given that Utd's performances relative to the players they have available to them are the worst in the League, I do find it laughable that you don't think there's any evidence that nobody could do better. Absolutely yes, Klopp and Pep would do considerably better than ETH has :D

And I didn't miss the last point, I just couldn't be arsed going round in circles with you. I've made the comment 100 times before and numerous others have called you out on it. When somebody makes a criticism of Utd, they're wrong in your eyes. So when all these criticisms of Utd are wrong and Utd are currently in the state they are, it does leave you scratching your head.
 
I used names because I knew you were trying to create a strawman, and oh look I was right. yes we could have more control with 3 other players that we don't have, that goes without saying. And no your example 3 is not good imo, Eriksen has been not great this season and can't even play 90 mins. He also came on yesterday and played through our worst period of the game.

And no we're not without 2 of our back four we're without seven. I'm not sure why you aren't understanding this. Even if you're talking first choices we're without 3 so I guess you're just making up a number to try and wind me up.

You just can't admit you accused me of something I didn't say. At no point have I said everything is rosy or even implied that, you just seem to have taken offense that I don't want the manager sacked and want to see how things change with the new ownership. GOD HOW ROSY
 
Ok, I knew before I first replied how this was going to play out. From your very first post in response to fez all you were looking to do is distract from a valid criticism of the impacts of Fernandes in the Utd side and you've continued it with every post.

I concede. Playing Fernandes in midfield has no negative impact on Utd's ability to control games or prevent attacks on goal. Utd concede the most attempts on goal in the entire League because they're without a dwarf CB and Luke Shaw. Had those two been fit this season then Utd would have won the quadruple and ETH needs a new contract.
 
Three times I've corrected you, three times you've continued to say two defenders. All this after calling me disingenuous which is the best part :D Baz your winding up is usually better disguised than this, come on.
 
Let's be fair injuries are a valid point in the Premier League they shouldn't make a difference against a Championship side and it obviously didn't as we went 3-0 and was coasting. What is the most concerning is throwing it all away that has been par for course all throughout this season and the last. We threw away a massive lead against Sevilla in the Europa League last season too in a similar fashion.

You can even look back to ETH with Ajax. They were 3-0 up against Spurs on agg and had a foot in the Champions League final but they ended up losing on away goals. Again a weak mentality.

It is very concerning how weak mentally our team is. It must be double figures in terms of games where we have thrown a two goal lead or at least feels like that.
 
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Shamikebab said:
But then you could equally argue how many games have we managed to pull out a winner late? Liverpool, Wolves, Forest, Villa, Fulham etc.
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We've probably lost more points in the latter stages of the game than we have won. In fact, I'm pretty sure against Brentford, a graphic came up and showed that we were the team that's dropped the most points in injury time?

Liverpool was just an immense game that unfortunately seems like a one off as opposed to showing the grit in our squad
 
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Steedie said:
We've probably lost more points in the latter stages of the game than we have won. In fact, I'm pretty sure against Brentford, a graphic came up and showed that we were the team that's dropped the most points in injury time?

Liverpool was just an immense game that unfortunately seems like a one off as opposed to showing the grit in our squad
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It's actually even. In all competitions looking at only last 10 mins plus stoppage time/extra time we have improved our position (loss to draw, draw or loss to win etc) 6 times. We've gone the other way 6 times too. Proportionally most of the negative ones were in the CL with two, both with red cards. I didn't count Coventry though because obviously we were winning with 10 mins left and we ended up winning on penalties.
 
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Chelsea have drifted to 6.0

This is a huge game for Arsenal. If they can win this, it’ll kick start their run in. Lose it and it’s basically over for me.

Let’s see if they have changed from last April/May.
 
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