Greenlizard0 Premier League Football Thread ** spoilers ** [3rd - 6th May 2024]

[fez]

...which leaves you with a motivation problem and one that can only be resolved (temporarily) with a new manager.

I think this is part of the big issue though. I don't really feel like motivation is out biggest issue unlike with previous managers. Previous managers had huge issues tactically as well but their biggest issue by the end was motivation. I just get the impression that the players haven't a clue what they should be doing moment to moment or they are simply incapable of adopting it in the actual real world.

 

[Calpol]

I think this is part of the big issue though. I don't really feel like motivation is out biggest issue unlike with previous managers. Previous managers had huge issues tactically as well but their biggest issue by the end was motivation. I just get the impression that the players haven't a clue what they should be doing moment to moment or they are simply incapable of adopting it in the actual real world.

I guess that's what comes from trying to fit the system to the players versus selecting the players for the system. Solskjaer recognised this and worked with what he had rather than re-invent the approach, ten Hag has been more stubborn but ultimately to his detriment as we are tactically shambolic.

 

[Nate75]

#BRINGBACKJOSE

 

[fez]

I guess that's what comes from trying to fit the system to the players versus selecting the players for the system. Solskjaer recognised this and worked with what he had rather than re-invent the approach, ten Hag has been more stubborn but ultimately to his detriment as we are tactically shambolic.

Not sure I entirely agree. Ole took over a decent enough side that had been tactically drilled by Mourinho and was pretty solid. He played counter attacking football which is probably the easiest type of football to play. Ultimately though you cannot be a top side that wants to play exciting football and counter attack as your main style. You get found out and fans get sick of it. As soon as he tried to change, things fell apart.

I think EtH has been too stubborn and unwilling to adapt but we brought him in to play a style of football and he has tried to play that.

 

[Calpol]

Not sure I entirely agree. Ole took over a decent enough side that had been tactically drilled by Mourinho and was pretty solid. He played counter attacking football which is probably the easiest type of football to play. Ultimately though you cannot be a top side that wants to play exciting football and counter attack as your main style. You get found out and fans get sick of it. As soon as he tried to change, things fell apart.

I think EtH has been too stubborn and unwilling to adapt but we brought him in to play a style of football and he has tried to play that.

That's a very good summary of the OGS tenure and encapsulates the entrenched problems at the club with the current squad. I fear we are in for another summer of little movement. Euro's always stalls transfer activity and unless we are prepared to terminate some contracts I can see players and agents dictating the pace of any rebuild. That's not something ten Hag can control but lets hope someone stops him buying another Onana or Antony. (benefit of the doubt given for Mount and Malacia at this stage)

 

[fez]

That's a very good summary of the OGS tenure and encapsulates the entrenched problems at the club with the current squad. I fear we are in for another summer of little movement. Euro's always stalls transfer activity and unless we are prepared to terminate some contracts I can see players and agents dictating the pace of any rebuild. That's not something ten Hag can control but lets hope someone stops him buying another Onana or Antony. (benefit of the doubt given for Mount and Malacia at this stage)

The fundamentals of our problems lie in scouting/transfers and a complete lack of long term planning. In theory we are fixing these issues. You need a top manager to win things but with the right structure and player profile you are never really starting from a low lever whenever a manager doesn't work out.

You can buy your Onanas and Antonys if you don't overspend and overpay them. Players don't work out and you move them on. With the way we operate currently, thats almost impossible. If someone paid £30m for Antony I would be amazing. Perhaps £20m for Onana.

As it stands, if we sold the players we probably should we might get something like the following if we are being optimistic.

Casemiro - £70 -> £30m if a saudi club come in.
Varane - £35m -> £10m perhaps - one year left on contract if we extend but hes on silly wages so probably leave on a free
Eriksen - £0 -> £0 - on large wage so probably leave on a free
Onana - £44m -> £20m - Larger wage and not going to have many suitors. Imagine we will keep him for at least another season however.
Antony - £90m -> £25m probably - again, wage might make selling him for even that hard
Rashford - £0 -> £60m if PSG want him. Otherwise he won't be sold. His wages are insane and ultimately he is a good player if he can be bothered. Probably won't be sold.
McTominay - £0 -> £20m perhaps
Martial - £50m -> £0 Gone on a free

So in a best case scenario we would be 8 players down and for the princely sum of around £150m. With a total loss of over £200m, a lot of it in a very short amount of time. If we didn't sell Rashford we would clear less than £100m.

Whatever way you want to look at it, we are in trouble for a few seasons.

 

[woppy101]

The fundamentals of our problems lie in scouting/transfers and a complete lack of long term planning. In theory we are fixing these issues. You need a top manager to win things but with the right structure and player profile you are never really starting from a low lever whenever a manager doesn't work out.

You can buy your Onanas and Antonys if you don't overspend and overpay them. Players don't work out and you move them on. With the way we operate currently, thats almost impossible. If someone paid £30m for Antony I would be amazing. Perhaps £20m for Onana.

As it stands, if we sold the players we probably should we might get something like the following if we are being optimistic.

Casemiro - £70 -> £30m if a saudi club come in.
Varane - £35m -> £10m perhaps - one year left on contract if we extend but hes on silly wages so probably leave on a free
Eriksen - £0 -> £0 - on large wage so probably leave on a free
Onana - £44m -> £20m - Larger wage and not going to have many suitors. Imagine we will keep him for at least another season however.
Antony - £90m -> £25m probably - again, wage might make selling him for even that hard
Rashford - £0 -> £60m if PSG want him. Otherwise he won't be sold. His wages are insane and ultimately he is a good player if he can be bothered. Probably won't be sold.
McTominay - £0 -> £20m perhaps
Martial - £50m -> £0 Gone on a free

So in a best case scenario we would be 8 players down and for the princely sum of around £150m. With a total loss of over £200m, a lot of it in a very short amount of time. If we didn't sell Rashford we would clear less than £100m.

Whatever way you want to look at it, we are in trouble for a few seasons.

Mate you’re getting nowhere near those figures

 

[Mark1989]

Utd wont sell half them players due to dumb ass wages they have given them all.

 

[Nate75]

Starting to think this stuff belongs in the Man U thread.

So last one from me...

Current odds, by favourites across the bookies are as follows

 

[Steedie]

The middle 3 would be worse than we have now, not entirely convinced Zidane would be much good in the job either given he’s only managed an already fantastic team.
Tuchel just reeks of a Conte/Mourinho type that brings more drama and toxicity than it’s worth

 

[Stu999]

Starting to think this stuff belongs in the Man U thread.

So last one from me...

Current odds, by favourites across the bookies are as follows

Waistcoat man, please.

 

[adam cool dude]

They are all pretty crap to be honest.

ETH needs to be backed and the players who don't tow the line sent down the road.

Finishing outside Europe is really a blessing in disguise. Gut the squad down to the basics. 1 game a week and go from there.

 

[omnomnom]

They are all pretty crap to be honest.

ETH needs to be backed and the players who don't tow the line sent down the road.

Finishing outside Europe is really a blessing in disguise. Gut the squad down to the basics. 1 game a week and go from there.

How many times? He's wasted so much money, him being backed isnt a good thing at this point.

 

[Martini1991]

I'd love to see Zidane come to Man UTD as manager, if only to see if he's any good

 

[fez]

How many times? He's wasted so much money, him being backed isnt a good thing at this point.

This is largely a failure of the scouting and transfers department. If we bought Hojlund, Antony and Casemiro for reasonable fees then we would probably be paying them less and we could move them on. Years of failed transfers leaves you with a squad that you are almost stuck with and it makes change and adaptation impossible.

Other clubs **** up a lot of their transfers too. They just don't get stuck with them due to the cost.

 

[adam cool dude]

This is largely a failure of the scouting and transfers department. If we bought Hojlund, Antony and Casemiro for reasonable fees then we would probably be paying them less and we could move them on. Years of failed transfers leaves you with a squad that you are almost stuck with and it makes change and adaptation impossible.

Other clubs **** up a lot of their transfers too. They just don't get stuck with them due to the cost.

Man City did a lot of this in their early years. As did Chelsea. Wasted monumental amounts of money.

It is just with FFP being a massive focus now you cannot get away with it any more. Get a couple of big money transfers wrong and you are done.

Man Utd are pretty fubar in that regard for at least another 2-3 years. Some players even have contracts till 28.

I do feel sorry for Bruno though because he is a player far too good for Man Utd in its current state. Reminds a bit of Bryan Robson but at least he got a bit of success in his twilight years.

 

[spudbynight]

Mate you’re getting nowhere near those figures

I am inclined to agree.

The issue is that someone might spend £20m on Antony. A club spending that sort of money won’t offer him anything like the wages he is on so Man Utd would need to give him some sort of golden goodbye to get him off the books.

They might get £20m but they might only see £15m of that. The same will apply to all the other players they want to sell.

I can’t think of a single Man Utd player who is going to be in demand.

 

[HangTime]

Sancho will be in demand because it's been spun that he was bang average due to the manager rather than lack of ability.

 

[Reuben klang]

Sancho will be in demand because it's been spun that he was bang average due to the manager rather than lack of ability.

And BvB can’t afford him.

He won’t go to any club that could and they’ll not put up with his nonsense off the park.

 

[omnomnom]

And BvB can’t afford him.

He won’t go to any club that could and they’ll not put up with his nonsense off the park.

BVB could. He's played a few games, i think people are going a little overboard.