Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [1st - 3rd January 2019]

[Steedie]

Beautiful result. Just beautiful. As a United fan, I should feel dirty wanting City to win so much, but I hate Liverpool even more.

It pains me to see Liverpool playing such superb football at the moment, and if they won last night then I could see them running away with it, but hopefully last night will knock them down a peg or two

 

[Purdy]

@BaZ87

I don't get how you can defend lovren, forget the first goal as I agree he couldn't do much or anything about that.

Everything else he did was still his usual consistent **** self, miss place passes, lack of focus.

Our defence has been great his season but its mostly nothing to do with him.

He is only in the team due to Gomez injury

In regards to other discussion agree to disagree too

Lovren has actually been pretty good a lot of times this season, last night doesn’t discredit that but he was absolutely horrendous last night (also gifted arsenal a goal after Liverpool had beaten their press, really it was a warning for last night).

That first goal is heavily down to him, he got a complete nothing yellow card thus refused to make a single challenge seemingly the remainder of the night and let Agüero past him easily which eventually resulted in that goal.

Him and Trent (bar the goal) on the ball were terrifyingly bad, a lot of the time we didn’t beat City’s press and they were in difficult positions but they simply chose the wrong option over and over.

Being removed from the rage of last nights decisions, we played pretty much as intended but with quite a few mistakes. It made City’s defenders look like monsters but they had so little to do with such a numbers advantage and rarely got exposed due to it usually being 2v4/5 as one of the three had to drop to feed the attack anything. It was probably the right way to play, luck and poor reffing will decide that game as was said pre match.

 

[Purdy]

A he basically didn't touch Salah, who then threw himself down as if broken and rolled around a bit. He got a fair yellow for a dangerous tackle. It didn't set any kind of tone because the game didn't follow that decision with constant horror tackles nor simply lots of smaller semi bad yellow card style tackles. It didn't have any effect on the game at all except gave liverpool a freekick and a chance.

Also the first bad tackle that was let go where contact was actually made was where Sterling had his foot stamped on, then Fernandinho ran into Robertson who stopped in his path then from being shoved in the back went down holding his face as if punched.

Neither of which really effected the tone of the game either.

Meh performances all around really, City better than Liverpool, Fernandinho better than all. Sterling, Sane and Aguero should have scored another 3-4 between them, Liverpool only really created chances for one or two goals they really should have scored.

I feel like the game would have gone Liverpool's way if that brief spell they came into it after a poor start resulted in that crazy near own goal. Saved by a fraction of a centimetre and City calmed down a little shortly after that and always felt the more likely to win after that.

You’re right about it not really impacting the tone of the game but always dumb to reply at that time

He most definitely did catch Salah’s ankle though despite Salah jumping to avoid the challenge, also still a clear red card, any player having to jump to avoid a broken leg instantly makes it a reckless and dangerous challenge.

I enjoy you refer to it as sterling’s foot stamped on when a player lunged to poke the ball but mistimed it and foot landed on Sterling’s you don’t get up and walk around fine instantly if your foot has been stamped on. You should watch the Fernandinho clattering Robertson thing again also

 

[Janesy B]

Yup they will

Always enjoy your insightful and detailed analysis jonney.

You’re right about it not really impacting the tone of the game but always dumb to reply at that time

He most definitely did catch Salah’s ankle though despite Salah jumping to avoid the challenge, also still a clear red card, any player having to jump to avoid a broken leg instantly makes it a reckless and dangerous challenge.

I enjoy you refer to it as sterling’s foot stamped on when a player lunged to poke the ball but mistimed it and foot landed on Sterling’s you don’t get up and walk around fine instantly if your foot has been stamped on. You should watch the Fernandinho clattering Robertson thing again also

VVD got a yellow for that horrible contact with Mertens and it was much worse tbh, didn't hear Klopp complaining then. In fact VVD was amazed it was even a yellow.

If you want to win the title you have to take things into your own hands and not bemoan things that don't go your way, instead work on the things that can influence the result. For example chaining up Lovren's legs and throwing him in the Mersey.

 

[No1newts]

I'm glad the decisions turned on Liverpool last night.

Don't get me wrong I would rather Liverpool win the title and enjoy their football but the last couple of games Salah has been almost Ramos'esque in his cheating and seeing some decisions going against him is nice karma.

Would like a three way title fight so hopefully Spurs keep in touch, makes it interesting as Newcastle slide toward relegation and another pointless season of existence

 

[Sui]

I'm glad the decisions turned on Liverpool last night.

Don't get me wrong I would rather Liverpool win the title and enjoy their football but the last couple of games Salah has been almost Ramos'esque in his cheating and seeing some decisions going against him is nice karma.

Would like a three way title fight so hopefully Spurs keep in touch, makes it interesting as Newcastle slide toward relegation and another pointless season of existence

He hasn't been cheating though, he's gone down under contact where he knows he won't otherwise get given a foul. He's shown in the past that he'd rather stay on his feet where he knows he has the ability to score even when being fouled.

I think it was a pivotal swing in the title race, and from here on out City will be clinical. They've had their slip up and Liverpool are due theirs, I'm just hoping it goes all the way as it does make it far more exciting.

 

[McBain]

He hasn't been cheating though, he's gone down under contact where he knows he won't otherwise get given a foul. He's shown in the past that he'd rather stay on his feet where he knows he has the ability to score even when being fouled.
.

Sure sounds like cheating to me.

 

[BaZ87]

@BaZ87

I don't get how you can defend lovren....

As I said, he had a mad spell at the end of the game. That's not defending him but compare the reaction to him as to TAA who had an equally poor spell in the 2nd half. Compare the reactions to both when we went away to Utd last season too. Lovren is criticised because hes Lovren and what's happened 4 years ago.

Our defence has been great this season and he's been in that defence around half the time and specifically brought in at CB ahead of Gomez the last time we played City. Obviously Klopp doesnt share the hysteria around him.

VVD got a yellow for that horrible contact with Mertens and it was much worse tbh, didn't hear Klopp complaining then. In fact VVD was amazed it was even a yellow.


If you want to win the title you have to take things into your own hands and not bemoan things that don't go your way, instead work on the things that can influence the result. For example chaining up Lovren's legs and throwing him in the Mersey.

VVD slid into the challenge one footed, completely wins the ball and then caught Mertens with his follow through. You're seriously saying that's worse than a player jumping in two footed in a scissor motion?


And you've literally quoted Purdy not bemoaning things that didn't go our way

 

[Sui]

Sure sounds like cheating to me.

No?

In both situations he is being fouled, a foul is a foul, it's not his fault referees don't give anything in the box unless you fall over, it needs to change.

 

[McBain]

No?

In both situations he is being fouled, a foul is a foul, it's not his fault referees don't give anything in the box unless you fall over, it needs to change.

What you’ve described is cheating. Going down when it’s not enough to send you over, that’s cheating, it’s conning the ref into thinking the contact was enough to put you down.

Just because there’s contact it doesn’t automatically make it a foul. I do agree that there are times the refs don’t give a foul when they should so players feel like they need to throw themselves down but at the end of the day it’s still a dive.

Disclaimer: I haven’t seen the Newcastle one, I’m talking in general and what you described is cheating in my book.

 

[Pigeon_Killer]

Regardless of the contact it was clear in the interview afterwards that Kompany tried to take him out. I wouldn't mind if that was with the tip of his toe catching his trailing leg but it was with a straight leg and with studs up. If Salah hadn't jumped out of the way that would've been a snapped leg and on purpose so I hope Kompany gets his in the coming weeks.

 

[4K8KW10]

Tottenham aren't winning the league calm down.

What about Nottingham Forest? Will they be promoted?

Regardless of the contact it was clear in the interview afterwards that Kompany tried to take him out. I wouldn't mind if that was with the tip of his toe catching his trailing leg but it was with a straight leg and with studs up. If Salah hadn't jumped out of the way that would've been a snapped leg and on purpose so I hope Kompany gets his in the coming weeks.

He was jumping for the ball. I got irritated that the referee stopped the play, at all. He shouldn't have stopped it.

 

[McBain]

10 years ago it was a great challenge, I thought it was as well but after watching it again this morning it’s not good. At the end of the day the game has changed and in today’s game he’s lucky to get away with that. Endangering an opponent and being out of control etc.

Stones put him in that position in the first place with his usual monumental **** up.

 

[BaZ87]

As soon as you're jumping into a challenge you're at serious risk of getting sent off. Officials/ex-officials say time and time again that as soon as you've left the ground, you're out of control and when you've got 80-90kg of body weight flying through the air, there's a serious risk of injuring the opponent.

 

[No1newts]

Sure sounds like cheating to me.

Amen, hence why I'm glad the worms turned. All's equal now though, hopefully he'll pack it in and can get back to a title decided between 2 (arguably 3) brilliant football teams.

 

[BaZ87]

Amen, hence why I'm glad the worms turned. All's equal now though, hopefully he'll pack it in and can get back to a title decided between 2 (arguably 3) brilliant football teams.

Genuine question, as a Newcastle fan weren't you more annoyed at Dummett than Salah? I've been very clear on these sorts of incidents for years - it wasn't natural contact between two players, Dummett has run across the back of Salah and pulled at his arm for one reason and that's to gain some sort of advantage. Yes Salah could have stayed up but why should he when he's been fouled and he will be penalised for not going down? Much like the two pens we got vs Arsenal, it was just braindead defending from Dummett - right in front of the ref he's decided to pull Salah's arm while making zero attempt to challenge for the ball.

 

[No1newts]

Genuine question, as a Newcastle fan weren't you more annoyed at Dummett than Salah? I've been very clear on these sorts of incidents for years - it wasn't natural contact between two players, Dummett has run across the back of Salah and pulled at his arm for one reason and that's to gain some sort of advantage. Yes Salah could have stayed up but why should he when he's been fouled and he will be penalised for not going down? Much like the two pens we got vs Arsenal, it was just braindead defending from Dummett - right in front of the ref he's decided to pull Salah's arm while making zero attempt to challenge for the ball.

I'm old school and get annoyed at all that ridiculousness no matter how it's parsed. Whether it's full on no contact dive, slight touch exaggerated or just a more elaborate fall I put it all down as cheating. I'm a dinosaur and I'm mostly going off football more with each passing year so I accept I may not be "keeping up" with how the game has changed.

 

[BaZ87]

I'm old school and get annoyed at all that ridiculousness no matter how it's parsed. Whether it's full on no contact dive, slight touch exaggerated or just a more elaborate fall I put it all down as cheating. I'm a dinosaur and I'm mostly going off football more with each passing year so I accept I may not be "keeping up" with how the game has changed.

I was more asking about the stupidity of Dummett's challenge. For instance whenever a Liverpool player concedes a penalty of gets sent off the first thing I ask myself is what did they do? I have no idea what Dummett was hoping to achieve other than to give away a foul - he's not even trying to tackle Salah, he just pulls his arm. He's given the ref a decision to make, with pretty much only 1 outcome, regardless of what Salah does.

Regarding the whole diving debate, I honestly believe that fans and most importantly officials need to concentrate more on what the defender is doing and less on how the attacker reacts. A foul should be a foul based on what the defender does - has he illegally tripped, pulled, kicked or pushed the attacking player? Not whether the attacker stays on his feet on does a triple backflip. As soon as we start doing this you'll see far less exaggerated falls and feigning of injury.

 

[No1newts]

I was more asking about the stupidity of Dummett's challenge. For instance whenever a Liverpool player concedes a penalty of gets sent off the first thing I ask myself is what did they do? I have no idea what Dummett was hoping to achieve other than to give away a foul - he's not even trying to tackle Salah, he just pulls his arm. He's given the ref a decision to make, with pretty much only 1 outcome, regardless of what Salah does.

Regarding the whole diving debate, I honestly believe that fans and most importantly officials need to concentrate more on what the defender is doing and less on how the attacker reacts. A foul should be a foul based on what the defender does - has he illegally tripped, pulled, kicked or pushed the attacking player? Not whether the attacker stays on his feet on does a triple backflip. As soon as we start doing this you'll see far less exaggerated falls and feigning of injury.

Personally being old school I would say it wasn't a foul and it was Salah over reacting to get a decision, as I say though with the way things are I appreciate my view is probably not widely held. Dummet was getting in a position to make a challenge but as I say, I appreciate notant may share the view.

I would agree with your second point but the issue is with players "conning" refs to make it look although something has occured. Maybe TV replays like in the world cup can help but it depends on how far they want to roll it out.

 

[BaZ87]

Personally being old school I would say it wasn't a foul and it was Salah over reacting to get a decision, as I say though with the way things are I appreciate my view is probably not widely held. Dummet was getting in a position to make a challenge but as I say, I appreciate notant may share the view.

I would agree with your second point but the issue is with players "conning" refs to make it look although something has occured. Maybe TV replays like in the world cup can help but it depends on how far they want to roll it out.

As I said in my second point, ignore Salah's reaction and look at what Dummett done. How is pulling Salah's arm not a foul? It's not natural contact between two players, he's made a conscious decision to pull him back.

And while I agree there's a problem with players conning the ref, I've very much of the view that officials have doubled the problem by being scared to make decisions unless they're forced to. Anyway, we've got VAR coming next season - I'm sure that'll be fun :/