Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [26th February - 3rd March 2016]

Arsenal fans are whinging like yesterdays performance was horrendous when it really wasn't. United played really well. I know every fan sees their team through rose tinted specs at times but United played pretty much as well as we have this season and Arsenal were a bit below par.

When Arsenal lost 2-0 to Barca all the fans were crying out about missed chances and how if they took their chances it would have been a different game. Barca barely turned up and won 2-0 and if both teams took all their chances it would have ended up perhaps 2 - 8. Barca played at about 40% of their capability and Arsenal at about 80%. Neither side were clinical.

Arsenals seasons always go the same as well. Good at the start when there is no pressure. Gets to about Feb/March and they are in with a shot and they dip just enough to make it very unlikely that they will win the title and then once the league is pretty much sorted for 15 of the clubs in the league they finish strongly.
 
for the last 9-10 years
Wengers always been 1 or 2 players away from a side that coudl win PL and CL. Wengers always been 1 or 2 seasons too slow to react to the GLARING holes in the team .
Wengers has bet the farm gone out and bought donkeys on the cheap and hoping them to be the next Henry.

The problem each years is one of more of lacking in quality a GK, centre half, midfield, or forward . eVeryone can identify it, but Wengers too slow, cheap or dumb to react.

Lets look at the last few seasons, remember some of these who were part of the spine of the team he expected us to compete at the top but just werent up to it (big list I might have one or two out, but you get my gist)

Arsenal – 2015/16 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Arsenal_F.C._season
Finally addresses the GK situation
Per on his way out. Paulista not up to it
Ox,Walcott, not producing after years of given a chance
one man Giroud going to get all the goals , no backup
Sanogo still in squad
No transfer action, gets a Midfielder and doesnt play him


Arsenal – 2014/15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014–15_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez in goal a liability
Midfield was ageing or injured
Yaya Sanogo was going to be the man to get us goals

Arsenal – 2013/14 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez in goal a liability
Vermalen injured
Relying on Arteta
Wilshere injured
Yaya Sanogo was going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2012/13 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012–13_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia in goal a liability
Djourou part of defense
Relying on Arteta
Wilshere injured
Chamak, Gervinho, Benayoun going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2011/12 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011–12_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia in goal a liability
Djourou part of defense
Wilshere injured
Chamak, Gervinho, Benayoun going to be the man to get us goals
Bendtner still in squad

Arsenal – 2010/11 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez,Almunia,Fabianksi
Djourou
Chamak
Young players coming thru, Ramsey, Wilshere,gibbs
Bentdner part of the team

Arsenal – 2009/10 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009–10_Arsenal_F.C._season
Chez,Almunia,Fabianksi
Gallas
Van Piersie – injured
Young players coming thru, Ramsey, Wilshere,gibbs
Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals

Arsenal – 2008/09 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008–09_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia,Fabianksi
Gallas
Djourou
Silvestre
Vela
Young players coming thru
Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals

Arsenal – 2007/08 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007–08_Arsenal_F.C._season
Almunia,Fabianksi goalies
Hleb, Flamini, Song, Denilson, Eboue. Rosicky in their prime
Probably a good enough squad that Wenger left break up because he was betting the farm on the players above and betting the farm that he could replace them with the crap he went out and found.
Oh yeah Bentdner part of the team, relying on him for goals
 
Tute said:
As a United fan, do you really want to replace Arsene? Itms very easy to slip down the table and out of the top four, at least he brings CL football every season!
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Which means what? Being in the CL means higher wages for Walcott, nothing more or less. We have zero chance of winning it, Wenger and too many of the players he have are incapable of winning it. Liverpool weren't close to favourites going into the CL yet won it. Dortmund/Atletico weren't close to favourites and got to a final. Arsenal last got to a final when we were a genuinely good team, that team is night and day to this one. Over a two leg game we have no chance of beating anyone even half decent.

Being involved in a cup is only even slightly entertaining if you have a shot of winning it, even if that is the flukiest ever in the history of the universe run to the final. Arsenal beat themselves regardless of the opposition. Utd weren't at all great yesterday, despite missing Martial(missing Rooney was a blessing in disguise), despite missing Smalling, Shaw, etc, etc, etc.... we played worse and got thoroughly beaten. This is what Arsenal do.

The only benefit to being in the CL is financial and it's for the players not the fans. If we at least got the 30mil from the CL or the sponsorship deal involved and dropped ticket prices that would be some benefit... but no, get ripped off, pay more and watch us throw it away every single time.
 
Tute said:
As a United fan, do you really want to replace Arsene? Itms very easy to slip down the table and out of the top four, at least he brings CL football every season!
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Arsenal have a strong side financially. We are a significantly stronger side financially than liverpool and with a more attractive location to players. Pep was obviously leaving, may not have been an option. Ancelotti was available and a great manager, Klopp was available. Rather than do anything we let them go to other clubs. Same goes for Poch quite frankly.

Again, being 4th does nothing for me. Consistently failing when it matters, giving Walcott a wage increase every couple of years, throwing money at Diaby, as a fan it kills me. I'd prefer to come 8th trying to improve than come 4th every year and be this team, because this team is unbearable to watch. A team full of girls. Sanchez is a giant diving ***** and I was incredibly angry at Arsenal before LVG did his flopping over because that is exactly what we did. Marginal shoulder contact, flop, don't want to run past that guy and fight, flop, no contact at all, flop, turned to fast and lost balance.. throw yourself down and hope for the best. Sanchez has done that since I've seen him playing which is since he joined Barca. He did it against Barca, literally just turned at full speed, no chance to change direction, fell over into the Barca player, claimed for a freekick and won it somehow. Arsenal were an embarrassment yesterday. Everything that was wrong with Arsenal yesterday is every reason why this team can't win the league and has absolutely no shot at the CL.

Who was Poch before he turned Spurs into title contenders? Aside from the fact that in the past 5 years that Wenger should have been fired, there have been at least a dozen completely top managers we could have gotten in to replace him, there is always a top manager waiting to come through. You can't guarantee we'll not drop down the table, but you also can't say we can't improve dramatically with a new manager. What I can say with absolute certainty is we CAN'T improve with this manager... that is the entire ball game.
 
fez said:
Arsenal fans are whinging like yesterdays performance was horrendous when it really wasn't. United played really well. I know every fan sees their team through rose tinted specs at times but United played pretty much as well as we have this season and Arsenal were a bit below par.

When Arsenal lost 2-0 to Barca all the fans were crying out about missed chances and how if they took their chances it would have been a different game. Barca barely turned up and won 2-0 and if both teams took all their chances it would have ended up perhaps 2 - 8. Barca played at about 40% of their capability and Arsenal at about 80%. Neither side were clinical.

Arsenals seasons always go the same as well. Good at the start when there is no pressure. Gets to about Feb/March and they are in with a shot and they dip just enough to make it very unlikely that they will win the title and then once the league is pretty much sorted for 15 of the clubs in the league they finish strongly.
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No, Arsenal's performance was dire, a striker, against an out of favour, unfit and not match sharp left back, a actually dramatically under rated and unfairly maligned CB, a poor DM in at CB who hasn't played much this year due to injury and a baby at right back..... and Walcott manages 17 touches and lost the ball 10 times......

Arsenal were pathetic and Utd weren't particularly good. This isn't specifically about that performance, it's about how it came about. Walcott is without any question or argument, not a central striker. EVERY appearance like today where he is a central striker the midfield fails to find any good link up play between themselves and him. no 1-2's, no working together to make space. Walcott plays for himself and for no one else. He is exceptionally limited, in this role(and mostly on the right as well but less badly) he has zero influence on the game yet we went to Utd, where we haven't won in 9 years and 5 months, with him leading the line. He was entirely predictably awful, he's always awful there yet Wenger again chose him to start in that position that he is incapable of playing.

For a decade, literally a decade, Wenger has been saying "i see him playing centrally eventually.... " ie after he improves a bit because he's 16 now. He's 26, he hasn't improved at all and yet now after a decade he's suddenly trying to play him in the middle. Why not when he was 18, 20 or 22... because he was crap then and crap now. Yet in the year everyone else is screwing up and we have the best/easiest chance of the title in a decade he chooses now to throw away points by playing Walcott centrally... it's completely indefensible.

Sanchez has been beyond woeful since back from injury and he's been significantly worse all season compared to last season... but he starts another big game? Ox has been starting recently despite being truly awful. The only reason he wasn't playing is he literally injured himself in the most stupid way imaginable. Played the god awful Ox against Barca, he was awful, after one of many poor touches he ran directly into an absolutely 0% chance to win tackle and injured himself. Even then Wenger let an injured player who before injury was woeful back on the pitch for the second half. Within a couple of minutes we almost conceded because they waltzed through our right flank with Ox missing.

He started the game... stupid, he got injured... stupid, he started the second half... stupid, no one on seeing him unable to move filled in his position... stupid, didn't go to ground like EVERY other player at every other team would have done to stop the game and get the sub made.

Any other team in the world would have sold him by now, even under the insane situation he plays, even starting the second half, the second he couldn't move Ramsey/Walcott/Welbeck should have filled in for him and let him stand around unable to move upfront. Hell any player on the team should have shouted at him to sit down and get the refs attention. Had I been on the pitch I would have run over their and two footed tackled him to get him on the floor and the substitution done. The level of incompetence we show is horrific.


Also, Utd and Chelsea are god awful this year, Chelsea were hilariously bad when we faced them... we've managed to lose to both.
 
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Pretty depressing spectacle today. After Ozil got one back there was still twenty-five minutes for the players to dig deep and force something, and it just didn't happen. That was a fairly average United side and, whatever about not winning, to not make them feel any sort of pressure for the final section of the game; that's what really worries me.

Looking at things with one eye, I say to myself, "Eleven games still to play, five points behind two teams who surely are going to stumble a bit in that rarified air"; I haven't totally given up hope, even though I know it's fast becoming faint and I should probably stop torturing myself.

It's a simplistic thing to say, but it is true: The team lacks steel and characters. That type of someone who just won't accept going down without a fight. Arsenal probably went out of the title race today, at the home of one of their great rivals, who are themselves a shadow of their former glory and who were just begging to be turned into pants spattering nervous wrecks. But Arsenal didn't seem to have the stomach in themselves for the battle. What's going on when Depay - a player who has looked totally shot of confidence all season long - feels so dominant that he can showboat and take the **** freely, even when it's still only a one goal game. I don't usually condone such things, but someone should have flattened him in the next challenge and gone full on Keown mode on it, with the veins bulging and the fists pumping towards the away end. Maybe a bit childish, but it would have put a bit of a marker down: The team has enough pride to respond when it's being mocked. It also would have felt good for the fans - Violence might have led to an instantaneous red-card and, once we'd all thought about it rationally, we'd probably all tut-tut a bit at it, but, at least at that moment we'd get that ball-tightning feeling of righteousness and fight and, as sad and all as it might be, that one moment of brainless defiance against the script would probably feel better than the slow predictable weak willed death by a thousand cuts that has to be endured yet again.
 
drunkenmaster said:
No, Arsenal's performance was dire, a striker, against an out of favour, unfit and not match sharp left back, a actually dramatically under rated and unfairly maligned CB, a poor DM in at CB who hasn't played much this year due to injury and a baby at right back..... and Walcott manages 17 touches and lost the ball 10 times......

Arsenal were pathetic and Utd weren't particularly good. This isn't specifically about that performance, it's about how it came about. Walcott is without any question or argument, not a central striker. EVERY appearance like today where he is a central striker the midfield fails to find any good link up play between themselves and him. no 1-2's, no working together to make space. Walcott plays for himself and for no one else. He is exceptionally limited, in this role(and mostly on the right as well but less badly) he has zero influence on the game yet we went to Utd, where we haven't won in 9 years and 5 months, with him leading the line. He was entirely predictably awful, he's always awful there yet Wenger again chose him to start in that position that he is incapable of playing.

For a decade, literally a decade, Wenger has been saying "i see him playing centrally eventually.... " ie after he improves a bit because he's 16 now. He's 26, he hasn't improved at all and yet now after a decade he's suddenly trying to play him in the middle. Why not when he was 18, 20 or 22... because he was crap then and crap now. Yet in the year everyone else is screwing up and we have the best/easiest chance of the title in a decade he chooses now to throw away points by playing Walcott centrally... it's completely indefensible.

Sanchez has been beyond woeful since back from injury and he's been significantly worse all season compared to last season... but he starts another big game? Ox has been starting recently despite being truly awful. The only reason he wasn't playing is he literally injured himself in the most stupid way imaginable. Played the god awful Ox against Barca, he was awful, after one of many poor touches he ran directly into an absolutely 0% chance to win tackle and injured himself. Even then Wenger let an injured player who before injury was woeful back on the pitch for the second half. Within a couple of minutes we almost conceded because they waltzed through our right flank with Ox missing.

He started the game... stupid, he got injured... stupid, he started the second half... stupid, no one on seeing him unable to move filled in his position... stupid, didn't go to ground like EVERY other player at every other team would have done to stop the game and get the sub made.

Any other team in the world would have sold him by now, even under the insane situation he plays, even starting the second half, the second he couldn't move Ramsey/Walcott/Welbeck should have filled in for him and let him stand around unable to move upfront. Hell any player on the team should have shouted at him to sit down and get the refs attention. Had I been on the pitch I would have run over their and two footed tackled him to get him on the floor and the substitution done. The level of incompetence we show is horrific.


Also, Utd and Chelsea are god awful this year, Chelsea were hilariously bad when we faced them... we've managed to lose to both.
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well said.i want sanchez, walcott, ramsey dropped from the north london derby
 
What I don't understand more than anything is why you are copying other peoples posts from this forum...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98895784

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98895753&postcount=9714

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98892073&postcount=9658

How about you give us your views or at least link and credit the people that posted it. I suspect you are trying to sucker people into thinking these are your views so you can turn around and say you don't flip flop.
 
dannyjo22 said:
What I don't understand more than anything is why you are copying other peoples posts from this forum...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=98895784

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98895753&postcount=9714

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98892073&postcount=9658

How about you give us your views or at least link and credit the people that posted it. I suspect you are trying to sucker people into thinking these are your views so you can turn around and say you don't flip flop.
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they are valid points.

We are a ****ing joke
 
I double checked today to see if Campbell was on the bench as I couldn't believe he didn't come on / start. Turns out he was. So a midfielder who has scored recently, got assists recently, showed composure in front of goal / advanced positions and played consistently well as a starter when we had loads of injuries finds himself behind Iwobi, ****ing Iwobi!!! He is by far the best option to start on the right yet Ox, Welbeck, Walcott, Ramsey and even Iwobi who is awful get played on the right instead of him.

Wenger consistently plays out of form players, he doesn't change and nor will our results. I'm not even angry, just resigned to our collapse once again. I agree with DM in that we need to shake if up a bit, even if it gets worse before it gets better. I'm just absolutely fed up of us limply rolling over whenever we need to make a statement.
 
CliffyG said:
I agree with DM in that we need to shake if up a bit, even if it gets worse before it gets better. I'm just absolutely fed up of us limply rolling over whenever we need to make a statement.
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I'd love to see him win one more title but his time has past. I'd like him to do it if he resigned and went out like Fergie on a high. His past 'failures' would be forgotten and his legacy cemented when you did go back for a bit, but I think he deserves that.

The trouble is I think he would then carry on. Which is why I think I'd rather Spurs won it. Regardless of the title or not, it really is time he sat up with the directors.
 
Tute said:
As a United fan, do you really want to replace Arsene? Itms very easy to slip down the table and out of the top four, at least he brings CL football every season!
Click to expand...

Yes it's time the stubborn old fool left, he hasn't got the tactical nous to beat the big teams time and time again ie Chelsea is a prime example. Couldn't even beat them with or without Mourinho when other teams below were doing it.

What makes u think we will slip down the table if Wenger left?? I don't get this stupid arrogant mentality of fans. We have an excellent squad, a squad that Wenger can no longer bring the best out of anymore. Maybe a change of manager will do the job, maybe it won't but we won't know till we try.

I've said it so many times now, I appreciate what Wenger has done for us since he came to us but his time is up, way up. Past 2 seasons our saving grace was the FA cup, the way we are playing lately I'm not sure we will be fighting for the FA cup this yr unless we fix our issues ie defensively and attacking. How we let that Utd youngster get 2 quick fire goals is truly beyond me especially with Utd suffering from so many injuries.
 
The biggest surprise with Wenger is his inability (or reluctance) to evolve his team, while every manager retains their traits his team seems to play in exactly the same way as they did 15 years ago.

Its different when you move around every 3 – 5 years, you have to naturally change as you have no influence on what players the club has before your arrival (plus each league is very different), when you've been there as long as Wenger has you have to force the evolution yourself.

Take Fergie as a prime example of this (or the only really), his teams always retained the trait that where direct (not long-ball) and utilized the wide areas of the pitch. Yet the formation, pace and type of players he brought in changed dramatically over his time at Utd.

His '99 win with a 'classic' 442 then evolved into having a much more static, yet creative midfield and a clinical finisher with the additions of Veron, Van Nistelrooy and changing both Scholes and Keane's role, while it never reached the heights of the previous set-up we were much more consistent in Europe, won league titles and it suited the players he had available more.

Move on another few years and while the deep lying nature of his midfield remained in Scholes, Carrick and Hagreaves the attack was totally different with Tevez, Rooney and Ronaldo running riot. Post Ronaldo we went back to a more 442 based diamond with Berbatov (and later RVP) and moving Rooney forward adding a clinical edge to a less aggressive attack.

All these teams kept to the idea that the player moves the ball forward quickly and that the wide areas of the pitch should be utilized but each did it in a very different way, and while we should probably have won at least another CL he always worked out how to get his team to win the league (or force another team to have a blinder of a squad/season)

Wenger seems intent on forcing the likes of Ramsey, Sanchez, Ozil and Welbeck into Pires, Ljungberg, Viera, Bergkamp, Campball, Cole sized holes. As good as they may be (and Sanchez and Ozil are/can be very good), they are different and he needs to realise that and change how they go about things.
 
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drunkenmaster said:
No, Arsenal's performance was dire, a striker, against an out of favour, unfit and not match sharp left back, a actually dramatically under rated and unfairly maligned CB, a poor DM in at CB who hasn't played much this year due to injury and a baby at right back..... and Walcott manages 17 touches and lost the ball 10 times......
.
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I presume you are talking about blind - who is unquestionably NOT a centre back at all, if anything he is a DM / CM who can pass as a left back

He is too short and not strong enough to be a decent CB , even if he can "read the game" very well

Just because LvG refuses to play two same- footed CB's together (ie the only ones that are fit) for majority of this season doesn't make Blind a centre half

That's one of the (many) ways LvG ******* the summer transfer window, by not getting in a decent centre half to pair up with Smalling (who isn't great himself, but is the best at the club currently), just thankful for the most part Sanchez was completely invisible

Don't get me wrong, he is a decent stand-in (in that position) but Utd shouldn't have been put in that position to start with.


In regards to yesterday I just think Wenger thought his pay-off to the ref would have got it sorted no matter how badly they performed - :D - Obviously didn't offer enough

edit - for every good thing Ozil does, he goes and does a stupid thing to compensate (like shoving a rival into the advertising hoarding) , no excuse no matter how much he is frustrated on the day (and it was blatantly on purpose)
 
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Everytime we fall apart at this stage of every season, we get this from our board saying Wenger will get x amount of money to spent in the summer:

(borrowed from Reddit)
2009: Arsenal to hand Arsène Wenger £60 million transfer war chest (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ar-chest.html)
2010: Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger ready to spend £35m war chest but deadline day deals collapse (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...collapse.html)
2011: Stan Kroenke’s Arsenal takeover ‘to give Arsene Wenger £60m warchest’ (http://metro.co.uk/2011/04/11/stan-k...chest-650568/)
2012: Arsenal hand Arsene Wenger transfer warchest after £150m Emirates deal (http://metro.co.uk/2012/11/23/arsena...-deal-543425/)
2013: Arsenal back Arsene Wenger with £70m to spend in summer as fans' anger mounts after FA Cup exit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...Cup-exit.html)
2014: Arsene Wenger gets £70million in transfer funds, wants to sign Tom Cleverley (http://metro.co.uk/2014/04/24/arsene...4707271/2014/)
2015: Arsene Wenger will be given £50 million summer war chest (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ar-chest.html)
2016: Arsenal to hand Arsene Wenger £75m war chest this summer to bolster fragile defence and midfield (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...midfield.html)
 
jonneymendoza said:
Everytime we fall apart at this stage of every season, we get this from our board saying Wenger will get x amount of money to spent in the summer:

(borrowed from Reddit)
2009: Arsenal to hand Arsène Wenger £60 million transfer war chest (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ar-chest.html)
2010: Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger ready to spend £35m war chest but deadline day deals collapse (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/foo...collapse.html)
2011: Stan Kroenke’s Arsenal takeover ‘to give Arsene Wenger £60m warchest’ (http://metro.co.uk/2011/04/11/stan-k...chest-650568/)
2012: Arsenal hand Arsene Wenger transfer warchest after £150m Emirates deal (http://metro.co.uk/2012/11/23/arsena...-deal-543425/)
2013: Arsenal back Arsene Wenger with £70m to spend in summer as fans' anger mounts after FA Cup exit (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...Cup-exit.html)
2014: Arsene Wenger gets £70million in transfer funds, wants to sign Tom Cleverley (http://metro.co.uk/2014/04/24/arsene...4707271/2014/)
2015: Arsene Wenger will be given £50 million summer war chest (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...ar-chest.html)
2016: Arsenal to hand Arsene Wenger £75m war chest this summer to bolster fragile defence and midfield (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...midfield.html)
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Those links don't work lol.

But yes, I've read about Wengers war chest a lot.
 
Norwich: Ruddy, Bennett, Martin, Klose, Pinto, Tettey, Howson, Brady, Redmond, Hoolahan, Jerome

Subs: Rudd, Olsson, O’Neil, Mulumbu, Dorrans, Jarvis, Mbokani


Chelsea: Courtois, Azpilicueta, Cahill, Ivanovic (c), Kenedy, Fabregas, Matic, Hazard, Oscar, Traore, Diego Costa

Subs: Begovic, Baba Rahman, Mikel, Loftus-Cheek, Willian, Pato, Remy

Pato first time on the bench, hope we get to see him.
 
0-1 Funes Mori from a corner.

Absolutely shocking from Richards to be fair, Funes Mori took a step Richards just carried on running and he had a free header.

Hilarious really.
 
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