Greenlizard0 Weekend Football Thread ** spoilers ** [2nd - 5th March 2012]

Soldato
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When have other clubs breached the top four, since 2000? Citeh, obviously. Everton for only one year. Tottenham a couple of times, when Liverpool have been run terribly, and Chelsea/Arsenal dropping the ball this season (if they stay in the top four, this season). Newcastle twice, but that ended well. Leeds once, but that ended well. To get in there, and stay, teams have to spend far more than they earn, it's just a fact... they can't get there, and stay, organically.

Everton never had the cash to invest in the squad in the first place

Tottenham ARE doing it without a lot of investment

Pardew is doing great work up at Newcastle, even with the numpty owner.

Wenger is doing it through sheer determination (even if he is a bit nuts for not investing in a few experienced players, as well as the youth he insists on)....and the fact that apart from Citeh, the EPL is getting weaker year on year

To be fair like most things its cyclical - ie for a time Chelsea was utterly dominant, just prior to that Arsenal were, and Fergie has been there for the most part trying to challange them both for best part of 3 decades nearly - but really owners needed to look at what was happening at Chelsea / Arsenal for last few seasons and target their places

Arsene has been the same for years (and the fabregas situation was always a matter of time rather than IF it was going to happen) , there has been yearly / every 18 month changes at Chelsea for the last 5 years or so - and they have been hanging on to top four slots because of little challange from elsewhere as much as because they deserve it (look at how the points for the title keeps on falling)

You can complain all you like about Utd, but SAF is one of hte few managers who has tried to invest in youth while still keeping a core of experienced winners in the side - a bit of a shaky start for the GK, but he is improving every game, a lot of young players who could have 5 - 10 years still at the club with a few promising U18's etc who should hopefully fill out the present squad in a couple of seasons time (although admittedly a few medium- high priced midfielders wouldnt go amiss right now)

If Pardew is left to his devices, with a few additions for his squad in the next two summer transfer windows , I think he could really make a good consistant impression on the top 4 before too long (depending on how long the Chelsea rebuild takes of course), Depending on what happens to Harry, and/if who comes in to replace him ...and who can be persuaded to stay at Spurs


Liverpool could easily be a consistant top four side again if they can convert a better % of chances they create (I hope not lol but they are proviing its about the small margins )

Right now I wouldnt be surprised to see a top four in a few years time consistantly without a London club at all - there are definitely spots up for grabs currently /in the next season or so without doubt (but plans at other clubs have to already be in place and be in partial execution to get it done in time)
 
Caporegime
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Arsenal have done that awesome thing whereby they buy people for peanuts, then sell them for loads. If they ever do spend money, they just use the profits off those peanuts-->loads players. It's pretty miraculous work by Wenger, tbh... it's meant they've been able to do the Emirates project, etc.

Bolton may have spent more in the transfer market, Arsenal probably outspent them in wages by 50-60mil at the moment, and have probably actually spent in wages + transfer total, approaching half a billion more.

Arsenal have afforded the emirates project, because the emirates project is paying for itself. Wenger however has used the extra 50million matchday income, on 50mil higher wages, for a team that is vastly less successful and lower quality.

Arsenal also manage to make that much more, because we have easily the most expensive tickets in the league and have done for freaking ages.

You simply can't defend Walcott on 70k a week, you really can't, and Diaby on 60k is even worse.

We've also gotten incredibly lucky, but for City being complete morons "fair market value" for a want away Adebayor, Nasri, Toure would have been considerably less. Yet despite completely ridiculous fee's for players worth NO WHERE NEAR what we got for them we replaced them with... vastly inferior players :( You have a player worth 10mil, sell him for 25mil, buy someone for 12mil...... and he's worse.... wooooo.
 
Soldato
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Which is why they managed it once, then crashed and burned (they didn't even make it past the qualifying rounds, did they? Then didn't manage to get in the top four, again)..

Thats exactly what I said - Everton never were able to spend to keep the position they held briefly, but it still shows its possible to get there with low investment to start with

.[/QUOTE]

Tottenham made a small profit (£4.2m pre-tax), but the Champions League brought in £22.9m. That surely means that this year, they're needing to make a big loss to carry on spending/competing with the teams they are, to get into the top four... that's on top of the post above..[/QUOTE]

They should gain £10m or so from the higher finishing position in the EPL to start with, plus they can gaurentee group stage tv money (if they finish in their current position give or take), plus to merely hold onto where they are, it could be argued they may not need too much additional investment in the first place

How's the owner a numpty? He bought a joke of a club... now they're getting to the point where they're self-sufficient :o. The point is, though, that they won't be establishing themselves in the top four without unaffordably big spending (look at the Aston Villa example...)..

find out from Newcastle fans, I dont think there are many that actually like Ashley or like what he has done in the past (even before re-branding St James' Park)

Wenger's able to stay there/Arsenal have been able to build their stadium, etc, because they've been in the cash-cow top four for so long. That reinforces the point that the top four's a relatively closed club, which keeps the people who are in it... in it!.

Other teams are getting stronger, yet Arsenal are arguably getting weaker (Fabregas going, who was central to everything good about Arsenal. Big questions over RVP, esp given that Arsenal still cant win anything)




Liverpool have uncommonly large commercial revenues, as a result of past success, though. Other clubs can't magic that up, so it's not a great example.

They are still more than capable of sustaining a top four position ahead of Arsenal / Chelsea (or both) , whether its a great example or not is irrelevant :)

Only if Arsenal/Tottenham/Chelsea stop spending. And that's the point... getting into those places is about money spent.

Chelsea will need a massive rebuild (its been suggested up to 8 players) , this will take time to get the players working together - remember its reasonably easy to assimilate 2- 3 players but that many takes considerably longer (esp with a new manager as well, new tactics etc etc) so its unlikely to be a instant success

3-6/7 is pretty close curently after 3/4 of the season (or there abouts) its luck more than anything else that is why Liverpool and Newcastle are out of the top 4 and Spurs/Arsenal are inside, doesnt take much after 27 games to flip those results around (ie next season) , especially with potentially a new manager at Spurs etc etc
 
Soldato
Joined
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North East
Can't believe there is still whining going on about the derby at the weekend.

Normally its the fans acting like ***** but this year its the managers, I feel embarrased by the way Pardew is acting and I know more than a few Sunderland fans who feel equally so about O'Neil.

Passions run high, move on and stop being pathetic about it. All fans (apart from the extreme "Lol my team is always right" morons who can never be reasoned with) agree that Sess should have been sent off because he did hit Tiote in the face no matter that Tiote over reacted (find a player who doesn't) and Cattermole should have been sent off for how he acted with the ref.

Fans can agree on this, there is no bad blood with the reasoned masses why do the managers have to act like kids? It's cringeworthy.
 
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